Boiling wort to reach mash out.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by psnydez86, Apr 9, 2014.

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  1. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Is there any harm in pulling wort out of the mash and boiling it, (after conversion) then add that back to the mash to reach the mash out temp? Cooler mash tun setup.
     
  2. bevoduz

    bevoduz Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2007 Illinois

    Look up decoction, and yes that should be doable.
     
  3. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I don't want to do a traditional decoction. I just want to heat up the thin mash (wort) and add that back to increase to my mash temp to 168 or 170.
     
  4. Applecrew135

    Applecrew135 Crusader (431) Jul 18, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Pulling mash for boiling and returning it to the remainder of the mash for the purpose of raising the temp of the mash IS decoction. It is not unusual to do this in lieu of adding additional boiling water to reach mash out if you cannot directly heat your mash (i.e., the mash is in a cooler).
     
  5. ericj551

    ericj551 Pooh-Bah (1,638) Apr 29, 2004 Canada (AB)
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought decoction involved pulling off a very thick portion of the mash and boiling it. Either way, whether it is officially decoction or not, I've practiced the technique for years and find it's a great way to mash out and improve efficiency.
     
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  6. TastyAdventure

    TastyAdventure Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2012 Kentucky

    Subscribed. Good idea! A nice segway into devotion people who still want to keep it simple with a cooler tun
     
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  7. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    You are correct. Decoction brewing involves pulling the thick part of the mash, and boiling that to develop some Maillard reactions while leaving the thin portion (wort)behind in the mash tun. The majority of the enzymes stay in the thin portion of the mash from what I understand.
     
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  8. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I am not pulling any grain out of the mash. Just liquid wort. That's why I mentioned I'm not doing a decoction. I think my wording confused you.
     
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  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Pulling wort (without grains), boiling, and returning is sometimes called a thin decoction. I've done it, but ultimately didn't find it was worth the trouble. It didn't do a lot for flavor as far as I could tell, and mashing out with hot water is a little easier, especially since I don't mash with the entire final volume of water. But to answer the original question, there's no harm in it.
     
  10. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I didn't think there would be harm but figured id ask.
    The main reason I'm thinking about doing it more is I often (always) under shoot my infusion out amount and or temp and hit like ~163f. I know it's not a huge deal but it bothers me. Pulling off wort and boiling it as I need is gonna make it easier (in my mind) to hit 168-170f every time.
     
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    A friend does a thin decoction very often on his system. When I do a double decoction, the first is thick, the second is thin. The second thin boil denatures the Beta and Alpha Amylase. Beta is denatured with a 168F step, but not the Alpha, you need 176F for that is the upper limit.
     
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  12. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Easiest method:
    Add a small volume of water calculated to raise the grain bed to the mash-out temperature.
     
  13. warchez

    warchez Zealot (545) Oct 19, 2004 Massachusetts

    I have found that pulling some wort bringing it to a boil is an effective way to get to mash out without diluting the wort more using an infusion of water. It works fine with no ill effects. And it takes less wort than an infusion of boiling water would take to raise the temp.
     
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  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    No argument there, if you have the room. My friend has a 10 gallon cooler as a mash tun, and brews 10 gallon batches, so he runs out of room often and his technique is to pull a thin decoction to reach mash out temp.
     
  15. ericj551

    ericj551 Pooh-Bah (1,638) Apr 29, 2004 Canada (AB)
    Pooh-Bah

    That works, but thins out the mash as well, which can have an effect on efficiency (especially with fly sparging, I think).
     
  16. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    It's difficult for me to nail my water infusions to hit mash out. So It will often take me 3 gallons of water to hit mash out and that's thinner than I wanna make my mash if I can help it.
     
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  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Are you using a program/calculator?
     
  18. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    I do this regularly when making high gravity beers, as I have a small-ish mash tun. I'll mash, run off a couple gallons, bring to a boil, then add back to get to mash out temp.
     
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  19. NuclearRich

    NuclearRich Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2009 Connecticut

    Harm? Depends on if your asking for a medal from a beer judge and you arent trying to make a beer in which Maillard reaction products arent meant to be in. The heating of wort will encourage maillard reaction (yes I know you will be heating it eventually by boiling), which is where a decoction mash is meant to really enhance traditional german styles like doppelbock or marzen. Now if you are trying to produce a beer that is looking for toasty, nutty malt deliciousness, then you are fully encouraged to continue on! However, beware that you might get some 'off' flavors in lighter styles.
     
  20. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    On a homebrew scale, are Maillard reactions a real thing, or just BS like vorlaufing?
     
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