What makes a brewery great?

It's sad how many people don't list treatment of workers when discussing their criteria of a great brewery.

 

Where are you gathering this information and how are you quantifying it?

 

Just browsing through some of the responses in the previous pages. Seems like many responses list variety, distribution, consistency, etc. as the elements that they use to determine if a brewery is great. Perhaps they are there, but I haven't seen many responses saying that the treatment of workers is a consideration when deciding if a brewery is great or not.

 

How are brewpubs/tasting rooms not relevant? Especially when considering there is basically a mandatory brewery-going experience implied in getting many of the most exotic beers. The new release experience can be like the theory of relativity; four hours at a nice warm place drinking pints/samples with friends can feel like four minutes, just as four minutes in a line full of angry customers being herded through a retail drag can feel like four hours in hell.

 

This is an addition to my post just above...

I didn't notice that you had "treatment of workers" bolded when I first looked at your response. I wasn't "quantifying" as you say (I think "operationalizing" might make more sense, here but that's neither here nor there), in any specific manner. Ultimately I am talking about the overall well being of the workers and pay and benefits provided to them. Do the brewers pay salaries that reflect the cost of living in the area? Do they provide quality health benefits? Do they provide quality vacation time? Do they encourage workers to take vacation time? Etc. These are the types of things that I am talking about when I see treatment of workers. I didn't see much of that in my browsing of the first few pages and that is sad to me.

 

I'm sorry, maybe I was unclear. I was wondering how you are gathering information about how a company treats it's employees and how you are quantifying that into you decision as to whether a brewery is 'great' or not. I saw your list of criteria earlier in the thread. The only way to really know those things is if you worked there, or know someone who worked there (and even then there will be many accounts of working there that will differ from a single experience). Or are you just taking an absence of glaring, public mistreatment of employees as signaling that there is proper treatment happening?

Not baiting, truly curious.

 

no doubt, but here's the thing, the only thing that matters to me is how good the beer is.
now if this was a tread was about what brewery is the biggest or which has the best bar/ tasting room I would concur. but to me what makes a brewery great is its beer. one beer or ten great ones- it doesn't matter. take lawson's finest for example. no brewpub, visitable brewery, hardly any product to be had, but is it not great. is dbl sunshine not great, if the the best dipa on the east coast?

 

We replied at the same time, so ignore my last comment. These things are all great and absolutely representative of a great company. There is just no good way (that I can see) to gather enough information of these practices in any reasonable sample size for it really to play into how a person views a company. Short of an egregious series of events that leads to a public outing of the poor work environment/conditions etc.,.

 

Looks like I response in part to what you just asked as you were asking it. Take a look at my post above.

To answer your second question, it's a combination of all three really. Accessible information about employee treatment, combined with experiences of current and former workers, combined with an absence of glaring mistreatment of employees. Ultimately, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. However, whether the information is plentiful or not, it still influences me. I want to support the businesses that treat their employees well. I want to stay away from businesses that treat their employees poorly. My ability to judge who is treating them well and who isn't is massively limited, nevertheless there is some accessible information which I find helpful (and it's definitely more than just a disgruntled ex-employee ranting about a company on some blog).

EDIT: In response to the response you made (again at the same, ha ha, we're in good rhythm!), I agree that there's no even way to know worker treatment for all businesses in a substantial way. However, I can't dismiss the criteria altogether as a result, it's still important to me, whether the information is easily accessible or not.

 

A great brewery all depends on what the individual is looking for and their expectations. Or it may be based on how they are feeling that particular day. A brewery may be good one day, then not so good the next. You may feel great one day and think a not so good brewery is spectacular, but may feel crappy the next and think a great all-around brewery is terrible. Also, subjectivity rules with desires and expectations.

Objectively for me, a great brewery would obviously need to have consistency, good beer, good food, be a good value, decent accommodations+seating, nice atmosphere and environment, clean, with friendly and helpful staff.

Stone restaurant/brewery is big , has a nice atmosphere, good beer, but has expensive food, and is crowded. Russian River has great beer, decent food, but is small and crowded. Ballast Point and Green Flash are both decent in their own way. In the Northwest, Boundary Bay has a great personable staff, the Elysian breweries are uniquely different in their own way, and Laurelwood, Rogue, and Descheutes all have something different to offer.

My point is, breweries are all good in their own way, they all have something different to offer, and you will always be able to find something nice to like or enjoy when visiting them. Look for the silver lining and stay positive : )

 

I definitely agree with you in a big picture sense but like rekrule said, how would an average consumer know any of that stuff? That's something that can really only count against a brewery too. I would stop buying good beers if I heard the company treated its employees like shit, but I wouldn't buy shit beers just because a complany treated its employees well.

 

I agree, I don't think buying a crappy product just because a business treats their employees well is a good idea. In fact, Maine Beer Co. is a great example. From what I understand (and my knowledge of them is very limited) they treat their employees very well and they provide a great set of benefits. However, their products are way over priced and, as was the case with Lunch, way overrated. Thus, I don't buy them, even though the "pro-worker" in me wants to support them. The must also meet my other criteria in a good brewery, which is a quality product.

 

A great brewery is one that makes consistently great brews -- Period. While I like variety, price point, and availability they are not factors for "great" in my mind.

Take Sierra Nevada for instance. They have great variety, availability and their price point is awesome but I personally have yet to have a single "great" beer from them. Everybody's palate is different though. I do think Celebration and Torpedo are both decent but I never buy them.

 

Nor is Abita

 

For me, consistency across diversity. Many great styles / experimental beers (session / imperial / hoppy / malty) all with the same quality. Some brewers are very good at one style / aspect of brewing which can definitely be a very good brewery, but to be great, need to be more than a one trick pony.

 

Hmmm..several factors come to mind at the moment (pre-Mountain Dew portion of the day):

1- Integrity of product. Beer has to be at least "good" and consistent. That is, I wouldn't think twice about buying it.
2- Integrity of company. This includes honesty (like, who makes the beer; where it is brewed; who owns it), care for employees, and how it interacts with brewing industry
3- Dedicated to their goals. If a brewery wants to focus on German styles (e.g. Prost Brewing in Denver) then stick to it, and make them there beers delish
4- Gotta brew. Crooked Stave has some outstanding beers...but I haven't had one that they have "brewed" yet. They do great blending, aging and yeast "things", but I cannot rightfully call them a brewery....yet...even though I enjoy their beers quite mucho.

Now for my caffeine injection....

 

So ironic you would say that.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/search/?q=The+Alchemist+Pub+&+Brewery&qt=beer

Hurricane Irene is the only reason these are no longer brewed, but it is likely they will be brewed again. Back in the day one could make a case that Alchemist was the finest, most widely diverse and excellent, brewery in the country.

BTW they make more than the one beer now.

 

Yeah, it was an effort at 'food for thought', which I think it provided; just aiming to point out the subjectivity of the question. Your definition is great beer=great brewery. To me, that is a legitimate answer but not the one I would offer; I think it takes great beer for sure, but the brewery makes the brewery. I guess I just think of it as a means to stand tall among a sea of great craft beer which is constantly expanding.

I would say Lawson's as a brewery is...damn good. I wouldn't go great, but damn good. Their lack of availability doesn't take them down any in my eyes, but having a presence beyond bottles on VT shelves for 3 total hours a week wouldn't hurt their reputation either. I have personally only had three offerings; I thought Fayston and Sticky were pretty OK, and to answer your second question, yes Double Sunshine is the best DIPA on the East Coast* imo.

*King Sue is the best in the country

 

This is what I'd call a great brewery

 

i was thinking that maybe I misunderstood the thread. that breweries like stone, sierra nevada, victory, and a few others that make great bear but also have a great brewery. i know sierra is so big that they do full on concerts, so does ommegang. so maybe i was wrong about lawsons - great beer but only a working brewery. for me it's all about the beer. sure a tasting room is awesome. full pours, flights and the like are all a very distant second compared to the quality of the brews.