Is all fives a cardinal sin here?

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by hollyisaway, May 17, 2012.

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  1. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    when your understanding of something like all 5s entails that all 5s is impossible, the natural approach is to rethink your original understanding.

    for one, couldn't your objection be raised against a 5 in any category? if you need to drink all beers to know that beer X cannot be surpassed in any category, why would you not need to drink all beers to know that beer X is insurpassable only in taste?

    now assume that you can't know it's a 5 (ie insurpassable) only in taste. how could you know it's a 4.5? is that not in comparison to 5.0, the maximum? surely it's not just an addition onto 3 (AKA average), because if so you could end up adding on 2 to 3, and end up with 5--but we've already proven that getting a 5 is impossible. so we mustn't be able to add (or subtract) from 3.

    and how would we even get the 3? needn't we drink every beer to truly know if beer X is average in a given category?

    conclusion: it's impossible to confer any rating.

    real conclusion: this whole line of reasoning was flawed to begin with. 5 doesn't mean insurpassable, 3 doesn't mean "literal average," etc. 1 is terrible. 2 is pretty bad. 3 is average (meaning decent, alright, etc). 4 is really good. 5 is great, maybe the best you've had. you have no complaints about 5.

    don't overthink it all the way into falsity / meaninglessness.
     
  2. Thickfreakness

    Thickfreakness Initiate (0) Oct 2, 2010 New York

    I don't know anyone that really cares about someone elses reviews anyway... Have fun with it and review how you like. I only half read most reviews. Most are very samey and not very creative. "Good flavor" is my fast pass to going onto the next review. LOL!
     
    maximum12 likes this.
  3. TheJollyHop

    TheJollyHop Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 California

    All 5's is not a sin, it just shows that you are relatively new to the reviewing process. Every category is scored relative to other beers you have had. So if you have had mediocre beers, the first good beer might seem like a 5 across the board. However after trying a few more good beers, then maybe that first 5 was more like a 4. I have had excellent beers, but only very, very rarely does a beer reach such a level of perfection. Rochefort 10 might be the only one that comes to mind, due to the fact it is readily available and the batch variability is slim to none.
     
  4. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    what does batch variation have to do with it?
     
  5. TheJollyHop

    TheJollyHop Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 California

    I feel like any brewer can get lucky once and make a fantastic beer. But if they can't do it again then what's the point? If an excellent beer tastes excellent from batch to batch, it's more worthy of a 5 than a one off hit.
     
  6. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    doesn't that undermine the point of even rating one-off beers?
     
  7. hollyisaway

    hollyisaway Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2012 Maryland

    I'm fine admitting I'm a novice to the reviewing process, but hardly to drinking different varieties of beer, particularly concerning stouts. The main question here has turned into style vs experimentation in rating something like a peanut butter imperial stout, rather than questioning how many beers I've had.

    Also, Pahn is completely right about the one-off point. Quality control and consistency is invaluable, but there are times when it can't be used to determine the actual rating of the beer. Particularly because this site does not consider ranking, quality control, or availability within the ranking equations.
     
  8. TheJollyHop

    TheJollyHop Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 California

    Absolutely. There is no practical use for rating a beer that will never be brewed again. It's great to know what you thought of the beer, but it is of no use to me because I probably will never get to taste it. Now reviewing a beer that is more available is actually helpful to other consumers. But I understand the fun of rating in and of itself.
     
  9. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    i've read reviews of dozens of 1-offs (maybe even hundreds) before drinking them... i think your logic a bit flawed.

    also, while you may never drink the retired 1-off, its review can serve as evidence of a brewers' capabilities.

    regardless, it seems weird to taste consistency in a given example of a beer; it's as weird as tasting rarity. i'm not saying you shouldn't incorporate it in your reviews (within the guidelines of reviews i think people should weigh whatever is important to them), but to me it seems to be judging things external to the appearance / smell / taste / mouthfeel / overall.

    ---

    edit: heh, and to confuse the issue more, something i think "about beer" but not "about reviewing" is that you're more likely to get a 5 beer from something perfected like duvel or j.w. lees or rochefort 10 than some brewery's 1-off, but that's just to do with the nature of craftsmanship, not of reviewing. if i taste a beer brewed by some hack trying to cash in on the craft beer craze and i think it tastes better than duvel, honesty dictates that i review it accordingly (shrug).
     
  10. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,933) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    It definitely should be a rare occurrence, and as such it has become an unwritten rule to not award many (if any) 5's amongst most reviewers.

    I think I have only ever given one 5 myself. That said, I think more ought to be issued where they're due. It's just that the current form of reviewing (each characteristic individually) makes it tough even in the best beers. A still lambic - not matter how amazing - is tough to justify a "5" for appearance.
     
  11. TheJollyHop

    TheJollyHop Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 California

    This I agree with. However, what is greater evidence of a brewer's capabilities than consistency of his/her product?
     
  12. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Three perfect scores for me: Surly Darkness '07, Great Lakes Barrel Aged Blackout Stout, & Lawson's Maple Barrel Aged Fayston's Imperial Stout.

    Doesn't matter to me what others think of these beers. To me they were perfect, & I'd have them any time, any where, for any reason.
     
  13. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    "Is all fives a cardinal sin here?"

    Simply put, no. From a consumer point of view, some beers deserve all 5s and for that consumer who gave it all 5s it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks.
     
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