"Does American craft brewing have a quality problem?"

Let me re-introduce a link posted a couple of pages above by @thekidsarealright1

http://www.brewersassociation.org/p...-smallest-craft-breweries-are-driving-growth#

Anybody who thinks the craft beer market growth is in danger of being killed off by the emergence of lots of new kids on the block should think carefully about the difference between linear and exponential growth referred to in this page from the BA website. Notice in particular that it is exponential growth, not loss. Also, the big kids are showing steady strong expansion. But the new kids as a group are showing even more rapid expansion.

This is not to say there aren't new kids doing technically bad beer, or that there aren't folks in need of education, or that there aren't people out there who need an awakening to their own faults, just that things are not so dire as they may appear to be based on a few carefully chosen anecdotes or examples.

 

Sure, I have done fine. But I think what you are missing is that 90% of Americans have no idea how large craft beer has grown, how many different styles of beer there are, nor that quality might vary between breweries. Really, how many people in this country know Stone Brewing Co. as a brand? We're not even talking 10% of the populace. You and I live in a craft beer bubble, and that's fine. Most people do not and that's fine. But if craft brewing wants to garner the business of those outside of the bubble, we need to do our best to make sure that the very first sip of craft beer that they have is a good one.

While we might have gotten attention for our IPAs and Stouts, Daniel and I spend more time on perfecting and honing our Hefe and Pils than on any other beer. Not only are they the beers we drink more often than not, they're also the beer that the neophyte is going to turn to first.

 

Many of the small ones are nanos, or breweries that will only make <1000 bbls for years. They count towards the total number, and that number is growing like I have never seen.

I would like to see a study that lists the growth in brewing capacity of the craft brewers. The expansion of the large brewers is/will bring huge capacity online. The Lagunitas Chicago brewery might equal the capacity of all the start ups in 2014. The new breweries by SN and NB in Asheville will also add large capacity. Established facilities like Bells just added 12 new 800 barrel fermenters, and built the structure to support 12 more when needed.

The little guys and gals need to have high quality to compete with the established big ones. The price of entry is high now.

 

That depends, some styles I do not have a basis for comparison because I have not had them from the source. I've been to Munich, and I know that the Andech's I am getting here now is spot on (assuming freshness) with what I had over there. Those are world class beers. But if I attempt a Kolsch, I have no basis for comparison here in the US, as I have not been to Cologne.

You said you can brew a Kolsch, how does yours compare to those in Cologne? Is it world class?

 

One of JA's first 'expansions' was an inhouse lab. I don't know many startups that plan to spend money on a lab and go ahead and do it before adding on more tanks, bottling lines, tasting rooms etc..

I don't think it's a coincidence that I also don't know many startups making beer as good as Jack's Abby

 

Jeff,

Part 1:

Thank you for replying to my queries and composing your detailed response.

“To say that ABC makes flawed beer is kinda missing the point. They are simply nailing a style to the best of their ability.” I am very unsure what “nailing a style to the best of their ability” means here. There have been lots of comments by you, Mitch, and Paul that some craft breweries are producing beers with technical flaws. It could very well be argued that those craft breweries are indeed “nailing a style to the best of their ability”. In other words, their best in terms of brewing practice is producing beers which have technical flaws.

“Now, as far as these brewers making patently flawed beers, the first sin that I see the most of is oxidation. That rears its ugly head in many many craft beers and can cause all sorts of problems with not only trans-2-nonenol, but also VDKs. Speaking of which, diacetyl. If you don't think this is a flaw, great, but for many of us, it can make a beer undrinkable as can 2-pentadione.” The truth of the matter is that I personally find a beer that has a high amount of diacetyl (e.g., > 0.3 mg/L) to be objectionable but I also personally do not feel comfortable making a determination for others. In a prior post, Mitch Steele (@MitchAtStone) stated: “When I first started brewing in the 1980s, we had one beer that was particularly prone to diacetyl. As a brewer, I hated when that happened, but the people that came into our pub loved it.” So, I have a similar palate and preference as Mitch Steele but “the people that came into our pub loved it.” Who is ‘right’ here? Are Mitch and me ‘right’ or are the people (beer customers) who love the beer with diacetyl ‘right’?

“If your a beer geek that doesn't think these are problems, that's fine.” Let me be perfectly clear, I personally find beers that have technical flaws (e.g., high levels of diacetyl, DMS, acetaldehyde or off flavors from infections or flavors such as cardboard (trans-2-nonenol) from oxidation and on and on) objectionable. I simply do not feel like I should let my personal palate and preferences be the ‘authority’ here. It seem to me that if beer customers what to purchase beers such as Mitch’s diacetyl ridden beers then they are the true ‘authority’ in this matter.

“AB as well as many educational studies have proven that they do take away from drinkablity.” I personally would not argue that producing a beer with technical flaws would be more ‘drinkable’ than a beer without technical flaws. For me the bottom line is: do beer customers like the beers despite the technical flaws and continue to purchase them?

“I mock the brewery that hands them a foul excuse for a golden ale brewed with zero finesse and no attention to detail. My problem is that when that happens, guys like Mitch and I just lost a customer because that person just thought to them self, after the first sip, "Bud lite is better than this." And they're right.” Perhaps this is the crux of why the Brewers Association (Paul), Mitch and you find craft breweries that produce beers that have technical flaws to be a problem? I must confess that I have difficulty with this argument. A beer customer should be capable of having the ability to think something like: Brewer A does not produce a product (beer) to my liking I should try Brewery B (e.g., Stone, La Cumbre, Sierra Nevada, etc.) beers instead. Consumers make product choices all of the time whether it would be brands of bread, brands of hamburgers, you name it. To think that a consumer has the inability to consider the various choices to them and make a decision that is right for them is senseless. The whole free market economy that we have in the US is predicated on consumers having wants/needs and companies producing goods to fulfill those needs. To think that the only option for a beer customer who experiences a craft brewed beer that is not to their liking is Bud Light is a bit insular.

“So voting with your dollars. With that analogy, Budweiser is the best beer that has EVER been brewed.” I personally am not a fan of Budweiser in particular. Ironically even among AAL drinkers Budweiser as a brand is no longer the “best beer that has EVER been brewed” with declining sales volume over the past 20 years. But to your point, the beer volume leader is Bud Light and yes that beer could be considered the ‘best’ beer among the general beer drinking public.

“Will some of the lesser breweries go out of business? Sure. Will all of them? Not sure. But how many of the better breweries will they take with them by posing competition through their own business as well as the business that they drive away from the industry as a whole? There's the problem.” Ah, we seem to be back at the crux of the issue? There seems to be a thought process among Paul, Mitch and you that craft breweries who produce beers that have technical flaws will have an impact on the rest of the craft brewing industry (e.g., impact Stone beer sales, impact La Cumbre beer sales, etc.)? I have a difficult time seeing how beers with technical flaws that are purchased by beer customers (e.g., Mitch’s diacetyl ridden beers) are going to have a big impact to those craft breweries that produce beers without technical flaws.

“The more garbage beer in the marketplace, the less the good brewers can thrive, expand and increase production of good beer.” This statement as a standalone sentence makes no sense to me. In a free market economy, companies that make “garbage” are not rewarded (consumers will not purchase what they think is “garbage”) while companies that make products that consumers want/need will be rewarded. In other words, the “good breweries” will be rewarded via more purchases and as a result they will thrive, expand and increase production.

 

Part II:

“Sure vote with your dollars.” Well, I can relate that I personally vote with my dollars. I purchase beers that are of quality to me (e.g., Stone, Firestone Walker, Sierra Nevada, Victory, Troegs, etc.). I have yet to travel to New Mexico but rest assured when get there I will purchase La Cumbre beer as well. Other beer customers will cast their votes in other directions. AAL beer drinkers will purchase beers such as Bud Light. Other beer customers will purchase beers from Appalachian Brewing Company (ABC) despite the technical flaws of those beers and who knows, maybe ABC will be rewarded with enough beer customer dollars that they will open a 7th location (and expand the number of beers they bottle)?

“But, and I know this sounds dickish and I'm ok with that, call out bad beer with all your might. If it's truly bad, a brewery deserves to be called out for releasing it.” Feel free to have a conversation with Shane Welch of Sixpoint Brewing. He has received a number of communications from me about the Sixpoint beers brewed at Lion Brewery. The GREAT news is that Sixpoint brewed their last beers at Lion Brewery as of last month (March 2014). I would like to think that my communications played a part here but I want to give all of the credit to Shane for making a sound business decision. The free market economy rewards businessmen like Shane Welch who make sound business decisions.

“The disgusting garbage coming out of some breweries is unfitting of our industry and the sooner these companies go out of business, the sooner all of you will have more good beer to enjoy.” Amen, Jeff!!

“Stepping down from high horse... “ I don’t see a “high horse” here. I see a man who is passionate about the craft beer industry sharing his views. Needless to say but I have a different viewpoint on certain matters.

Thanks again for taking the time to specifically respond to my numerous queries.

Cheers to Jeff Erway!

 

I greatly enjoyed all three brands of Jack’s Abby beer that I have had.

AlcahueteJ does not appear to think very highly of the Pilsner that they made.

Cheers!

 

We need to consider what we are considering quality. Is it a matter of quality in the sense that good ingredients are being used...proper rules for safety and cleanliness are being adhered to? Or are we just saying that we are finding more and more beer out there that isnt to our liking? Which is completely subjective. Im not saying its not relevant, but as beer becomes more widely produced, it can go two ways...either more brewers aim to serve the widest audience, which will produce a more uniform, monotone, boring BMC-like product, and they will attempt make their bones by touting themselves as being small or local and hope they can ride that wave...or there will be brewers who continue to push the envelope harder and harder in order to produce a stand out product which may end up appealing to a very limited audience, if anyone at all, depending on how far out there they go. And then there will of course be the ones who are simply not good at brewing and should give up the dream and go back to their desk job. I'd like to be a rock star. The only problem is, Im not musically inclined and have a voice that sounds like nails on a chalkboard. So here I sit. Each of us to our own talents.

All of these things however are not uncommon in any growing industry. Some will ride the coat tails of those who are doing it well. Others will fool the public with slick marketing and fancy labels. And still others will play on the sympathies of others, exploiting the plight of the small business person to get you to take their product over the big corporate machine wrapped up in the six pack next to it on the shelf.

The hope is, again as with all industries, that time will weed out the bad ones and the solid producers will win out in the end. The hope is that the consumer will see past the flash...make quality the most important thing, even in their endeavor to support local and small business...which is admirable, as long as its not misguided. The hope is that brewers will be more about their craft than patting themselves on the back simply for brewing their beer in a specific geographic location or in 5 bbl batches...or being more focused on selling t-shirts and mugs with their logo on them than making good beer...and that bloggers and forum posters (such as ourselves) will be honest in their judgements about the beer, rather than getting caught up in the hype and kissing ass in order to get a free one of those t-shirts in the mail or during a visit to the brewery.

So, I wouldnt say that craft has a quality problem. Not in so much as to suggest it is unique to the industry. Maybe better to call it growing pains. At the end of the day, it should be about the beer and the people who drink it...and if someone is out there doing beer badly, but still successfully, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

“ …if someone is out there doing beer badly, but still successfully,..”

I would argue that if the brewery is successful (i.e., selling their beer) then by definition they are not “doing beer badly”. The ultimate arbiter of good beer vs. bad beer is the beer consumer.

Cheers!

 

Since I like data, I'm curious. How many Koelsch beers in Koln are are world class and how many are not?

 

Why, then, do you so frequently bring up the fact that some of your favorite beers have won medals (awarded by people like Paul, Mitch, and Jeff -- and in a couple of competitions, even directly by Paul, Mitch, and Jeff themselves)?

 

As I posted previously:

“I simply do not feel like I should let my personal palate and preferences be the ‘authority’ here. It seem to me that if beer customers what to purchase beers such as Mitch’s diacetyl ridden beers then they are the true ‘authority’ in this matter.”

Cheers!

 

2 and 29 (going by Michael Jackson's estimation and the current number of those beers in production).

 

I don't follow. Was that an answer to my question, or to someone else's?

 

Thats just my point...and hopefully, eventually, their quality or lack of it, will show through simple good marketing...but for a time...there are those who will survive...even thrive...based more on the hype than the product itself. If it continues...it is ultimately our fault as consumers for putting other things ahead of the quality of the beer to guide our purchases.

 

“..it is ultimately our fault as consumers for putting other things ahead of the quality of the beer to guide our purchases.” I suppose I am looking at this from a slightly different angle. Consumers purchase what they like. I think it is a rare individual who would openly state something like: I like non-quality products. In other words, if a consumer likes and decides to continually purchase a particular product (e.g., a beer from ABC) then from my perspective that product is a quality product to that consumer. I personally do not see any fault here. Each and every one of us gets to decide which products we like and want to purchase; there really is no need to assign fault here IMHO.

Cheers!

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/good-examples-of-a-kolsch.165394/

I like data too. First, what's your definition of a world class Kolsch? The thread I linked above details what mine is. I am not a Kolsch expert, however there appears to be multiple beer enthusiasts in that thread who imply there are many examples in Cologne, and virtually none in the US.

Specific data points? I have none. How exactly is Jack measuring his Kolsch then? Where's the data to support that claim?

 

Thanks. I hadn't realized he'd ever listed a Koelsch as a world classic beer.

 

The 2 mentioned seem to fall at times within his world-class designation and at times slightly below it (***--->**** ratings). Since these are both small operations (Muehlen and Paeffgen), this could be due to batch and/or ingredient quality variation, but that's pure speculation on my part.