Berliner time.. Bring me your best.

Yea the taste isn't too bad. I'm hoping the boil will help things.

 

Day 4.
I'm at about 73 hours in. Ph is at 3.1. Gravity is down to 1.024! Smells exactly like a green olive. Firmly sour. The flavor is pleasant. The smell isn't. But I hate green olives. Thinking I may boil longer than 15 minutes.

 

I had pretty much the same experience with mine when I pulled a sample last night. Really liked the taste, and the sour was coming along nicely, but just smelled awful. I will also be hoping a longer boil will help.

 

It's crazy how much mine smells like a green olive. But I think the flavor is pretty nice. I'm kinda bummed that my gravity is already down to 1.024. I wonder any alcohol has been produced? Do any strains of lacto create alcohol? I'm imagining I have more than just lacto lowering my gravity??

 

Just wanted to jump in here and share some of my experiences with brewing a Berliner. I attempted my first one a few months ago via sour mash. This resulted in a decent tasting product with offensive vomity aromas. I just tried my second batch.. This time I used a very different method based on a YouTube video I watched with a guy from wyeast. I built up a starter of wyeast 5335 and kept it at 90+ for a week. I then brewed up a simple recipe (1/2 pilsner malt 1/2 wheat) to a og 1.039, no hops and 20 minute boil. I then brought it down to 95 degrees and pitched the lacto starter (no sach at this point). I kept the Carboy as close to 90 degrees for another week, then Pitched German ale yeast 1007. At this point, it is tasting very sour with a nice wheat profile and more importantly: no vomit aroma. I will check back in once I fruit and keg it and give some final impressions, but this method seems to maximize acid production.

 

@homebrew311 how much did the lacto alone lower your specific gravity ?

 

I've had the same smell as you guys plenty of times before (diaper, hot garbage, etc) and with only a 15 min boil it went away.

The lacto we use that comes from grains doesn't produce alcohol.

 

"the strain sold by Wyeast (5335) is only capable of fermenting about 10-12% of the carbohydrates in a standard wort, not nearly enough attenuation for something resembling beer. Luckily White Labs’ 677 strain is capable of producing an enzyme which allows it to ferment maltose, maltotriose, and raffinose, ensuring a dry finished beer without aid. In addition to lactic acid, WLP677 also produces both alcohol and carbon-dioxide, so the result should be similar to a beer fermented with yeast." -The mad fermentationist/Old Sock (from the 100% lacto berliner post)

I thought it was interesting that only 10-12% of the carbohydrates are effected from typical lacto. Yours is a wild strain so who knows what it's capable of but if it follows suit with the 10-12% that might mean the gravity won't continue to drop

without raising the gravity that would still put you at an estimated 2.5% abv. I'd drink that

 

White labs lacto = non-sour berliner weisse (I've brewed with it twice and no dice). If you read his later posts on the White labs berliner he brewed, his didn't sour much at all either.

 

Dang it. So my beer is gonna lose its green olive nose?? Poop.

 

Great posts guys - I'm feeling more confident about giving a berliner a try soon. Just making sure I can control the lacto as best as I can, seems the sour kettle or sour mash is the safest way...ending the lacto in a boil. I'm looking to keg - @homebrew311 if you keg using the wyest lacto will you dedicate that line to sours from here on?

 

Got my batch souring on Wednesday. Heading out town and not planning on checking for about a week. Hopefully it will be ready for the boil at that stage.

 

The lacto took it from 1.039 down to 1.027. Since I've added the sach, I'm down to 1.014 since my last gravity sample. I hadn't considered dedicating a keg line just to this beer but I'm glad the issue was brought up. If that is necessary, I will likely just bottle it all from a keg. The sour mash is definitely the most cost effective method, it's just that with my resources, I couldn't control the temperature enough and ended up with 10 gallons of drain pour (I gave it like 4 month to sit and even fruited half of it in hopes of some improvement, no such luck). One thing I didn't mention, I kept my starter on a yogurt maker which was perfect at keeping the sample in the right temp range. And as far as the kegging issue, what are others thought on dedicating a keg line? I already dedicated a carboy and siphon, but didn't even think about the keg side of things.

 

Keep in mind that even if the strain of Lacto that you have produced Alcohol as well as acid, as soon as you boil it you are driving off all the alcohol. Your beer will essentially have a starting gravity of what ever you have post boil, and only the alcohol from the Sacc strain.

 

My sour mash method was more cost effective because I used whole grain for the lacto rather than 5335.... 5335 runs $10-12 bucks a pack. Otherwise, everything costs the same. So I guess it really isn't the sour mash that makes it more cost effective, it is just the sourcing of the lacto that changes the cost. Considering my sour mash went down the drain though, it really wasn't cost effective at all.

 

6 Days in now, and just got back from vacation.

There is a thick layer of solid white yoghurty looking krausen? on the top. The room it has been sitting in has probably been sitting at 70 during the day, but may get down to 60 during the night. It was pretty gross looking, but the sample I grabbed had a nice tartness, with no really bad smell, just grainy/yoghurty.

I figure I'll scrape the scum off and give it a boil tomorrow. Will post a photo. Let me know if anyone figures this is potentially unhealthy..

 

Sounds like a Lacto pellicle. If it smells good and is tart you should be good.