German craft beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Dec 20, 2012.

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  1. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Oh, I know -- so was my outing Einhorn about his obvious sellout to commercialization. :wink:
     
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  2. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    Probably not. But I wanted to make Einhorn aware that there could be lots of homebrew floating around with that pic in the label.
     
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  3. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Good point.
     
  4. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Thanks to you both. I did not know that it was being used on Labelizer. As I recall, it was royalty free, but I did feel it was my due diligence to get permission.
     
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  5. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Boddhitree's Lebkuchen Brown Ale
    500 ml flip-top poured into my 400 ml Willibecher and shared with die Frau. Details unknown. Ask Boddhitree.

    [​IMG]

    The flip-top pops off with great might, but no explosion (I opened it in my kitchen sink just in case). This beer pours and looks like a stout. Very thick and dark, only a little light brown escapes at the edges. Now, what to make of this beer. First, I'd say it's very good. I want to put that on the record. I will add that I generally prefer my beers without added flavors, so keep that perspective in mind.

    What comes through the most is cinnamon, clove, and candied orange. A bit of hoppy earthiness thrown in for good measure. This beer tastes like you might imagine a Yankee Candle - Christmas Scent might taste. For my own personal tastes, the cinnamon is a bit too dominant. It's almost like eating a box of red-hot candies. For that reason, I think is a beer I would not drink a lot of at once. But I appreciate it for what it is. I bet this would be a great beer to serve during the Weihnachtsmärkte.

    3.50/5.00
     
  6. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    The predominate taste you got is the cardamom, of which I added waaaaay to much. Next Christmas season, I'll tone it down and you'll be able to get the full Orangeat and Zitronat as well as all the other flavors that were overpowered. But thanks for your input. :slight_smile: I always open my home-brews over the sink, just in case.
     
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  7. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Thanks for letting me try some! Do you have a rough idea of the ABV?
     
  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    This may account for a part of the huge increase in the exports number.

    http://www.bild.de/regional/ruhrgeb...en-lieben-unser-weizenbier-34439188.bild.html

    „Die Chinesen mögen keine herben Biere. Deswegen haben wir jetzt mit einem Weizenbier angefangen. Die obergärige Hefe dafür stammt aus Deutschland”, so Kloppert.

    Wait, you mean super bitter American style IPAs aren't necessarily the wave of the future everywhere? Who knew?
     
    #688 herrburgess, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  9. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I know you're not a huge fan of the "craft beer revolution", but I think that most Americans don't like bitter beers either and it's probably a similar situation in most areas of the world.
     
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  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    True...and that is a big reason why I wonder about "craft" beer fans becoming so prescriptive about the traditional German beer culture, frequently saying that what it needs is more extreme tasting beers like American-style IPAs -- and/or to amp up its Pilsner, Koelsch, and Helles with "MOAR HOPS!"
     
  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Also would sincerely be interested in your take on those latest numbers. You have a unique insider perspective, and those numbers seem to tell a story of a pretty major turning point, if I'm reading them correctly. Of course only time will tell, but we can (and do) always speculate....
     
  12. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    The guys driving the trend do play a certain role, and they all hang out here, so that's what you're gonna hear. I hate the fact that only highly hopped or über-ABV beers get the highest ratings, but hops + ABV = FLAVOR.

    Even most big craft beer breweries sell more low-hop beer than hoppy beers. So there's hope for you :slight_smile:
     
  13. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I think you found the reason for the huge export boom @herrburgess . Feldschlößchen has been producing no-name and supermarket brand beers for many years now, and the quality has always been somewhat dismal. True factory beers. 800,000 HL is really huge volume (considering the entire German market does about 80 million HL) they must have found a supermarket chain/partner to get beer onto shelves in one fell swoop.

    The questions are 1) are they making more money on this than throwing it at basement prices onto the German or European market 2) is it sustainable 3) they at the mercy of one customer in the future 4) when does the German competition slide in and attempt to steal the business. The Germans are export experts, but still in the doldrums, and this news/development has certainly raised many eyebrows.
     
  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Feldschlößchen is a Braunschweig brewery...and my father-in-law's favorite local (though it's since been bought out by a conglomerate). I have drunk lots and lots of Feldschlößchen, and while it's certainly not remarkable, I strongly disagree that the quality is, and has long been, "dismal."

    Regardless, the fact that they seemed to have tapped into a major market -- perhaps the biggest in the world -- where disposable income is on the rise year after year would seem to me to indicate that they have found something potentially very sustainable, and perhaps even increasingly profitable. Even if 100 other German brewers entered the market, certainly you'd agree that this type of growth would be more sustainable than entering, say, the U.S. "craft" market -- where the 6-12% of the U.S. beer drinkers that comprise the majority of consumption are already served by more than 3,000 breweries?
     
    #694 herrburgess, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
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  15. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Feldschlösschen has brewed Felskrone, Karlskrone, Neptun, Gräfenwälder, Adelskrone and every other Aldi/Lidl/Norma/Rewe beer you can think of. I am not against inexpensive beer per se, but the price competitiveness must mean cutting corners here and there. I have had hideous, metallic Feldschößchen beers that made me gag, but that's me. Maybe the house brand is brewed differently, which I doubt, or maybe he's getting super-fresh beer which has it's definite bonuses. But think of it this way: if you have 800,000 HL capacity to sell out of the gate (only about 20 breweries in all of Germany produce more TOTALLY), you're not doing something right or did something very wrong in the past.

    China has been on the international brewer's radar for many years now. When I went to Doemens in 96 they already had an exchange program in place and there were Chinese at every Brauwelt I have ever attended. Everybody knew that if every Chinese person dropped a bottle of beer it would mean more than what is being consumed in 1/3 of Europe (/übertreiben). It's possible that the distribution channels are getting better and that, as you correctly say, disposable income and the middle class is growing, and the time is finally ripe for the picking. And I also agree, the mass market is more appealing than chasing your tail for the US geeks. But the fact of the matter remains that most German brewers cannot produce enough to cover China in it's entirety - OTOH Americans are OK with spending $10.99 for a 6-pack or $5.99 for a 500 ml bottle of well-known BRAND beer. So America definitely has it's appeal. Fazit: Know your market and your own capabilities.

    Let's see how this pans out - I bet that the next guy is already planning on how to jump and steal this volume.
     
    #695 einhorn, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
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  16. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    According to a pdf from Heineken (using Euro monitor statistics) the Chinese beer market volume grew like this over the years 2005-2010 (I can't seem to link the pdf in a link-form, but the name of the pdf presentation is Heineken-APB China: Capturing the significant growth potential in premium beer from December 8 2011):

    2005 304 mhl
    2006 346 mhl
    2007 386 mhl
    2008 409 mhl
    2009 438 mhl
    2010 466 mhl

    So basically, the market is growing by several million HL per year, and those 800 000 HL represents merely a drop in the bucket. Since the brewery mentioned in the article was built in 2004 the total market volume growth (albeit China-wide) amounts to at least 162 million HL.

    For comparison, Carlsberg is building a new brewery in China which aims to produce 15 million HL by next year:
    http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/10/carlsberg-invests-513m-in-china-brewery/
     
  17. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    According to another Heineken report from this year, in 2013 the Chinese beer market amounted to 531 mhl.
     
  18. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I think the increase in German beer sales boils down to one thing: the weather. The spring in Germany has been unusually quite warm, many weekends in the 20ºCs (70ºFs), and sunny. Whenever this happens, 90% of all Germans go outside, period. They grill, picnic, hike, bike, whatever, and when that involves others in a social event, it's usually accompanied by beer. It's been off and on warm like this since March. Had it been the usual gray, cold, rainy spring, then I believe consumption would've gone down 2%. Ask anyone Eis-diele, any bar or restaurant with outdoor seating, and I think you'll see the exact same trend. In investing, they say a rising tide lifts all boats, well, here the tide = the weather.

    I doubt it has anything to do with any other factor, except maybe all the beer I drink at BrauKunstLive in February.
     
    #698 boddhitree, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  19. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    You missed an adjective, "...but hops + ABV = obvious FLAVOR."

    It seems that the current beer geek needs BIG, BIG, BIG in order to feel like he/she's tasting something. To my palate, a little goes a long way -- and I actually like big and bitter beer, just not all the time. I don't need to be slapped around in order to feel like I'm enjoying something.
     
  20. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    There's a lot of relevant info on the Wikipedia page for Feldschlösschen.

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldschlößchen_(Braunschweig)

    The beer he -- and I -- drank was the Feldschlösschen Pilsner. Apparently it was -- and is -- brewed differently than the others. Even since the takeover by Oettinger in 2009, it has been brewed by (former) rival, Wolters.

    "Das umfirmierte Unternehmen Feldschlößchen Brauerei GmbH und die Traditionsmarke Feldschlößchen verblieben noch bis 2010 bei Carlsberg, während das Braunschweiger Feldschlößchen Pilsener bereits seit Dezember 2009 vom marktbegleitenden Wettbewerber Hofbrauhaus Wolters im Rahmen eines Lohnbrauvertrages gebraut und abgefüllt wird."

    Wolters Pilsner is itself a fine enough beer, especially when ultra fresh. My FIL always claimed, however, that it was too herb for his liking. Which brings us full-circle, in a way....
     
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