some naive questions after my first homebrew experience...

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by BeerDummy, May 7, 2014.

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  1. BeerDummy

    BeerDummy Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2014 New York

    Ok, so I just bottled my first ever batch of homebrew, and things are seemingly going well. I've been following all sorts of steps, instrutions, advice, etc without really knowing the reasoning or science behind it, so I'd like to start clearing that up....with some dumb questions....

    -I know that oxygen is needed in the (cooled) wort for the yeast to do its work, but at a certain point later in the process, oxygen becomes your enemy. When exactly is this, and why?

    -I pretty much just dumped my wort from my 6 gallon brewpot through a funnel into my fermenter (glass carboy). Do I have to take more care in doing this? Does this actually help introduce oxygen into the wort that would help when I pitch my yeast? Would siphoning the wort into the carboy be any better/worse?


    -I just read on a homebrew supply website that "a good quality kettle can be lifetime investment...if you're an extract brewer, you can still use it when you switch to all grain"....which is something I plan to do with the next batch once I watch 100 youtube videos about it, but why might you need a different kettle for this?

    I'll have more once caffeine kicks in, but thanks for any help, and your patience.
     
  2. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,856) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Oxygen is important for yeast growth , however, after the beer is fully fermented oxygen becomes a staling agent. Think of it as leaving a soda bottle uncovered or worse shaking your soda bottle up. after that exposure to air the product isn't nearly the same.

    Your process is fine and the oxygen from the transfer is necessary. Additional agitating would have been even better.

    The most important aspect of a kettle is size, assuming you want to do a full boil you want to go for a min of ten gallon. If you want to go higher than this you probably won't regret it in a few years. Alumni is cheaper and effective. Stainless is more expensive and equally effective.
     
  3. BeerDummy

    BeerDummy Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2014 New York

    Thanks...

    Just to be clear, I did give the wort a good long shake to aerate it once it was in the fermenter (and didnt just count on the pouring for my oxygen). I'd rather siphon the wort in (my kettle does not have a valve), is there a downside to that, assuming I'm still shaking the wort afterward to aerate?

    And: if I'm moving from extract to all grain, you say a 10 gallon batch is the minium I should consider? I was not aware of that....
     
  4. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (1,133) Sep 20, 2006 Michigan

    For the most part I only add oxygen before or right after I pitch the yeast. For really high gravity ales, and decently high gravity lagers, I do a second hit of pure oxygen.

    Dumping the wort is fine. I used to do that. Now I just run in through a ball valve at the bottom of the kettle. Which is basically the same thing, but isnt as hard on your back. I have been thinking about trying to filter out some of the trub.

    A brew kettle can be the same for all grain as it can for extract. When I moved to all grain, I got a 15 gallon brewpot, and used my old 7.5 gal on for heating water for the mash. It was time for an upgrade anyways. If you ever think you will do 10-12 gal batches get a 15 gal brewpot. If you are only doing 5-6 gal batches, I would get a 10 gal pot. Leaves room for longer boils.
     
    #4 sarcastro, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  5. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (1,133) Sep 20, 2006 Michigan

    Siphoning takes longer and it is more prone to clogging with trub. Other than that, I dont know of any downside.

    I think he meant a 10 gal brew kettle. I agree. I think it is definitely worth it. You have to account for boil off and a some room to avoid boil over. I make a 6 gallon batch to get 5 gallons in the fermenter. You lose some beer in each transfer.
     
    #5 sarcastro, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    You are asking the right questions. I offer these reads to get a good background.

    Here is Wyeast's description of aeration and it's benefits and limits.

    From Zymurgy a good read on oxidation.

    Regarding getting another kettle for all grain brewing: there are multiple ways to do this. You will see references to a three-tier system (where gravity does the hard work) . . . this is where the top tier is hot water (hot liquor tank), middle tier is mash-tun, and bottom tier is brew kettle. This is a common approach and works well. If you are brewing 5 gallon batches you will need a HLT in the range of 5-7 gallons and a brew kettle around 8-10. Many recommend oversizing for ease of operation. Obviously 10 gallon batches raises the ante for everything. There is no perfect brew size . . . I am happy sticking with 5 gallon batches, others rave about different sizes.

    Be aware there are multiple variations on the above. Your priority now is the education you have started and perfecting your "brew process". Knowledge and brew technique go a lot longer than the biggest and best equipment.
     
    inchrisin likes this.
  7. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Yeah, because in all grain, you will be sparging and collecting far more wort than you do in extract.

    Most extract brewers, and those new, don't really think, or care about kettle loss and boil off. You would boil 2-3 gallons with the extract and hops, and chill it and toss it in your carboy and top up with water to 5 gallons. Simple enough. For an hour boil, your 3 gallons could become.. 2 gallons. But you top up and no one thinks of the changes in the beer or the losses.

    In all grain, you want a 5.5 gallon batch amount, you'll likely collect close to 8 gallons or wort pre boil. You'll lose wort during the boiling, and you'll hit your OG's based on it getting more concentrated. You won't have to top up anything, it all goes in the fermenter.
     
    Mag00n likes this.
  8. BeerDummy

    BeerDummy Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2014 New York

    thanks to you both. all grain/sparging will be completely new to me (i wanted to focus on the overall process to get the ball rolling), but i'm aware of the 3 tier system. dont know if i'll go all-grain next, but i want to soon.

    i used a 7 gallon brewpot for a 5 gallon batch, which apparently isnt a large enough pot. i should have gone for a lower gallon batch, or at least a partial boil. i dont know what i want to try next, so i need to research, but i cant wait to brew again. i have so many things i'm eager to experiment with.
     
  9. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    A key thing o keep in mine here is the size of the batch becomes increasing difficult to lift and pour when transferring your wort into your fermentor. Siphoning, pumping or a gravity-fed system become your options. Each has plusses and minuses that have to be accounted for. Siphoning and pumping probably introduce the least amount of oxygen into your wort, so you need to make sure that your wort 'falls' into the fermentor and then some good shaking is still advisable. I still pour thru a funnel and strainer, but I make 5-gallon batches that I am able to lift to perform this task.
     
  10. BeerDummy

    BeerDummy Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2014 New York

    'goose, i hear that. i only had a 5 gallon batch but i underestimated how clumbsy it could be and was spilling all over the place (mostly b/c i wasnt pouring narrowly enough for the funnel). which is why i asked about siphoning.

    going forward, i plan on A/B'ing as much as possible, with one batch of wort going into 2 fermenters. this way i can do 2 different yeast strains, dry hop methods, etc....

    ...but deliberately not aerating one as much as the other might show me just how much of a difference it can make. that sounds pretty damn impractial but it would def be a learning experience.
     
  11. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    The first brewpot I bought was 7.5 gallons, which I thought would be big enough to do a full boil for 5 gallon batches. What I found out is that at that size, you're going to have some messy boilovers, even if you're careful. If you're going to do full boils in that size kettle, I suggest checking out a product called Fermcap, an anti-foaming agent that can be added to the boil. Works great.

    One additional thought about next steps: I would advise investing in temperature control equipment before going all grain, because I think it'll make a bigger difference in your beer. There's plenty of info on this online, but basically you need an old refrigerator of some kind (start scanning craigslist!) and an external thermostat (homebrew stores and online retailers sell these). The difference between beer that has been fermented at a near-constant, ideal temperature versus beer that's fermented in a closet at whatever temperature it happens to be that week is ... very noticeable.
     
  12. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    To clarify, batch size is the final volume of beer that is going to be packaged. You don't draw off more volume in an AG batch, but you will use more water throughout the process. A typical 5 gal batch will cost you roughly 8.5 gal of water. Why? Grain absorption and boil off rates apply. Grains will take about 1.5 gal and you'll boil off another gallon in a 60 min boil. Boil off rates will not change from extract to AG brewing. Typically for a 5 gal batch you will draw off 6.5 gal of wort for your preboil volume. You don't want this to be the tippy-top of your kettle or you'll have to deal with boil overs. You want some headspace in the kettle to help you slosh around a little. I wouldn't recommend going any smaller than 8 gal, and I'd recommend 10-15. You want to buy ONCE and you may consider batches that you'll boil down for hours (Scottish ales) or possibly doing a 10 gal batch. I have a 15 gal pot that I'm quite happy with and I can do 10 gal batches.
     
  13. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    What's up with that dirty sanchez mustache?
     
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