Fränkischer Pils Mischkasten

Discussion in 'Germany' started by boddhitree, May 8, 2014.

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  1. MattRiggs

    MattRiggs Crusader (451) Dec 1, 2012 Illinois

    I've always thought pils malt reminded me of saltine crackers. Does anyone else get that? To me, pils malt is "crackerlike".
     
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  2. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Not sure I agree with that. Unsalted "saltines" have virtually no flavor, hence the salt, yet then the predominant flavor becomes salt. But I understand what you mean, for there is a destinct "cracker" flavor, yet to me and my tongue, Pils malt has a distinct, unique and unimitible flavor. It's not biscuit, for when you've used a lot of biscuit malt in a beer, it's a sweeter taste of British style Digestive cookies/biscuits. A 2-row Pale malt is also quite different form a Pils malt, so in all, the problem I have is to describe Pils malt in a way that a complete non-beer drinker could understand, but unfortunately, I so far can't due to the uniqueness of the Pils malt flavor. It's like trying to describe the flavor of root beer to Germans; if you've never had it, it's for me at least almost impossible to fully describe. I appreciate the compliments y'all are tossing my way, but I still feel inadequate using descriptors that are beer specific rather than Generic. I think that's why wine critics pull all the fruit analogies, for if you know nothing of wine, how can you understand it? A good example is a skunk smell I was trying to describe the other day to Germans: if you've smelt it, you know it and can ID in a millisecond, but if you've never ever smelt that particular odor, no amount of descriptors will come near what it really smells like. And I find Pils malt in a similar category - it smells/tastes like Pils, period, full-stop, punkt. Other malts like Münchner (caramelly), Abbey (honey), or Black (roasted) malts have profiles which correlate to descriptors which fall outside the beer realm, yet tell me if Pils malt does, please, for I need better words to describe it.
     
    #22 boddhitree, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  3. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Boddhitree is light years ahead of me in this sort of thing, but I second the Saltine Cracker thing. I have gotten that before from certain beers, although I'm forgetting which ones. If I come across it again I'll be sure to post.
     
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  4. LBerges

    LBerges Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2010 Germany

    A nice selection at a fair price. My favourites are Hartmann and St. Georgen, but I have not tried all of them.
    But all beers are from the region around Bayreuth; the pils from Bamberg coty and Bamberg county is better!
     
  5. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    You want to have a mash pH in the 5.2 to 5.3 range. The finished beer should end up close to 4.1 or so, on the lower end of the range. You can lower the pH in a variety of ways, acid, acidulated malt, water mineral adjustments, acid rest in the mash, and so on.
     
  6. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    “Biscuity” is a slightly problematic term because you are thinking of biscuits-and-gravy biscuits, whereas I would be thinking of British digestive biscuits. Roger Protz is one beer writer who is very fond of using this descriptor, and I am sure he is thinking of digestives too when he talks about “biscuity malt”.
     
  7. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm sure they used an acid rest in the mash, don't you?

    Yeah yeah, I know. If you look at the heir-gibts-bier.de website, you'll notice they don't mention which beers will comprise the Mischkästen. My guess is that throw in whatever they've got sitting around. Anyway, it should be called the "mystery case." Apropos St. Georgen Bräu from Buttenheim, I think I'll review their Pilsner today to honor your contribution.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    (Again, I couldn't resist showing off my tasting glass from Cantillon Quintessence.)

    Appearance: blah blah, looks like a German Pils, ditto everything I said about all above Pils. Ok... striking golden yellow, clearer than water, bubbles still coming up from nucleation points.

    Aroma: The best of the bunch so far. Really biscuit-toasty sweet Pils malt, strongly very aromatic, the most Pils malt aroma I've had in this series.

    Flavor:
    Up front: A very nice and round Noble hop bitterness, a sweet/tart mix.
    Middle: More bitterness from hops and very sweet Pils malt flavors on the sides, quite strong toast and cracker sweetness but also tartness/acidity.
    Back: Here I really feel the Pils malt sweetness take over powerfully, with a mild bitterness and light tart quality intermixed.
    Aftertaste: Basically the same as the back taste - Pils malt sweetness galore with light tartness and bitterness thrown in.

    Overall: Close to a WOW beer. Very subtle mix of the above mentioned flavors, much stronger than all other beers, though. It not a huge standout from the ones before, but it's noticeably better in the intensity of the flavors, especially the Pils malt sweetness, which is balanced wonderfully with a bitter and tartness that makes it extremely süffig. A 4.5 or 4.7 of 5.
     
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  8. spartan1979

    spartan1979 Pundit (970) Dec 29, 2005 Missouri

    I had wanted to try some St. George biers the last time I was in Bamberg. I saw a few bars that carried them, but somehow I never worked it in. It will have to be a "must do" the next time we are there. Hopefully next spring.
     
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  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    St Georgenbrau is really first-rate all around. Their Kellerbier qualifies IMO as a world-class example of the style (if you can really call Kellerbier a "style"). Plus their Goldmaerzen, Vollbier, and Landbier Dunkel deserve to be better known.
     
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  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    It depends on the water and grist. With straight pils malt you would need low alkalinity and some hardness to get that low. I really can't speculate as to what they did.

    In your Homebrewing, do you use a pH meter? It is a useful tool.
     
  11. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    It is a short train ride to the station at Altendorf, then a ~2km walk to the brewery. The beers were excellent.

    Side note is that there is a Levi Strauss museum there, as it was his hometown. Did not stop there, as we had another mission.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Tony, my palate is similar to yours in that I do not ‘get’ saltines specifically.

    Just like you, Pils Malt tastes like Pils Malt to me. I really do not think that ‘generic’ terms does this justice. I really do not think that sweet/saltines/cracker are apt descriptors for Pils Malt.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
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  13. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I'm with you on this and agree 100%, adding to that any beer which adds "naturtrüb". I believe that a Kräusenpils could be hoppier - or at least that is what seems to be implying with the usage of the term pilsner.
     
  14. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I can't agree with that; my wife rolls her eyes when I tell her matzo tastes like unsalted "saltines" to me. Yes, it's a very subtle, mild flavor, but there's definite, certain flavor -- and I even get the character from some Pils malt, though not all, as Matt mentions. We used to use unsalted crackers to palate cleanse in home-brew competitions, then I switched to water only because the crackers were throwing me off.
     
  15. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    #6 in this series is from Bayreuth, as @LBerges mentioned, Brauerei Glenk's Pils. Can't say I'd heard of them before, but on their website, they say they're Bayreuth's old Privatbrauerei, whatever that means.

    [​IMG]
    Appearance: Looks like a Pils, like all the rest.

    Aroma: Heavy on the Pils malt, quite aromatic sweet Pils flavor. Not better nor worse than others.

    Flavor:
    Up front: I nice dose of Noble hop bitterness, not heavy or overpowering, but nonetheless a stand-up bitterness, again mixed in with a tartness and astringency (that's a word I was searching for in an earlier post) that's again upfront and proud but not overwhelming. You feel the sweetness of a Pils malt crouching in, but no more than any other Pils.
    Mid: Same as before, and some citrus qualities here for the tartness, not lemon, but again astringent enough to play well on a hot summer day. The sides give you the same jolt of Pils malt sweetness, cracker, toasty, again above average but not outstanding.
    Back: Same as above, just stronger sweetness and tartness with again bitterness.
    Aftertaste: Same as all the others, again, extremely above average but not standing out in any 1 quality.

    Mouthfeel: It's a typical German Pils mouthfeel, thick enough to wrap your mouth around it, dry at points but not overly and still a hearty meatiness to it.

    Overall: I must becoming jaded to a good Pils. It's average for this area and this style. It's not WOW, it's not bad, it's not even something I would go out of my way to buy if I were in the area. Nonetheless, it's highly recommended. If you catch this beer in America, it'd be a huge upgrade from a Becks, Veltins or Warsteiner. But that's not what we're comparing it to today; it's competition is other Frankische Pils, and it's highly above-average, a Lake Wobegon beer, maybe. I give it a 4 of 5.
     
  16. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ok good, so I'm not the only one who has trouble with describing pils malt. I'm the same exact way with pils malt though, when it's there, BAM! I know it. When it's there, and it's a well crafted beer, I know it instantly.

    My first Troegs Sunshine Pils this year had pils malt practically jumping out of my glass. Same with my Weihenstephan Pils on draft last week (this was an incredible aroma/flavor).
     
  17. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I believe Michael Jackson uses the "saltine cracker" description in his review of Prima Pils.
     
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  18. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Glad I started a conversation on the properties of saltine crackers. :rolling_eyes: No, really. Like I said in the above mentioned post, Pils malt flavor is unique and possesses a distinct flavor profile.

    If you didn't know this already, I'm not the biggest fan of a Pils, but when done really well, I'd say I enjoy it.
    Today we get to see the Stöckel Pils from Stöckel-Bräu Hintergereuth. Not much info on the bottle, other than the 4.9% and it's address. The only thing I noticed is that the hier-gibts-bier.de send me a pretty old beer. The best buy date (31.12.13) on the bottom was way past it's prime when I got it late in the beginning of this year. That means this beer could be 9 to 12 months old, eh?

    [​IMG]

    We'll see. On their website, they describe the Pils as:
    "kräftig gehopft und dennoch abgerundet im Geschmack - schlank im Trunk – excellente „Hopfenblume…ein MUSS für jeden Kenner und Liebhaber!" OR.. "powerfully hopped yet round in flavor, lean/slender in drinking - excellent hop bloom...a must for every [beer] connoisseur and lover."

    So, for those of you looking for a hoppy Pils, this may be your lucky day.

    Appearance: Looks like a Pils, clear deep golden under a show white head.

    Aroma: Pils malt wafts up and hits you strongly from the glass, but wait... grassy, hay-like undertones are there, too, from the Noble hops.

    Flavor:
    Up front: Yes, this is herb, a nice bitterness bites and sets up residence in the front of your tongue, not strong super-bitter, but a nice Noble hop round, noticeable bitterness intermixed with a slight tartness.

    Middle: More bitter, not not painful bitterness but a decent and proper handshake of bitterness, and of course tart flavors,... with the sides rescuing you from it with it's Pils malt sweetness. This is, I bet a 30 to 40 IBU beer range, but it feels like the bitterness may have been "extracted," for the grassiness and other qualities of Noble hops are lacking, which may be from the beers age. Yet again, I brewed a home-brew that exceeded the 90s IBU threshold and was undrinkable for the first 6 months of its existence, only to mellow considerably after that timeframe; thus, if this beer is anywhere from 6 to 12 months in age, how much bitterness or Noble hop flavor am I missing? This might fresh... might it be a godsend?

    Back: Now here's a nice mix of Pils malts, bitterness bite and tart/astringency mixed up in a wonderfulness you must try. At once, the Pils malt leans forward and wags its tail, then seconds later it's the bitterness, then a little tartness, and the longer you let it sit in the back of the tongue, the more these flavors bounce back and forth in a taste triangle.

    Aftertaste: You're left with a Pils malt send off that lingers with a bitterness deep in the back of the throat. Yum.

    Mouthfeel: Typical for Pils, but softer and yet a little drier.

    Overall: Damn I wish this beer was fresh. 6 to 9 months old... how did I let this go so long? Nevertheless, it's still a taste for a Pils-weary man. It's a combination of a Fränkische and North-German Pils. Even with its age, which I bet didn't change this beer too much, I hope, it's a WOW beer. If all beers of this region tasted like this, I might get bored, too, but they don't. One more thing, on the website, they say they use soft water, or as they say it:

    Ein wichtiges Qualitätsmerkmal ist das einzigartig, weiche Brauwasser aus eigener Quelle. Es eignet sich herrvoragend zum Brauen und muss NICHT aufbereitet werden! Diesen Unterschied schmeckt man natürlich.

    Or...

    An important mark of quality is the unique, soft brew water from our own source (well). This is ideal for brewing and must NOT be adjusted. This difference one can naturally taste.

    A 4.6 of 5.
     
  19. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have to say that the only time I've ever tasted tartness in a Pilsner (or Helles) I've considered the beer past prime, but it's a sour tartness. Fresh noble hops can impart a slight herbal or flowery character that borders on a lemon zest-like character, though it's pretty mellow. Maybe this is what you're picking up?
    Actually, I think Matt started that discussion. :wink:
     
  20. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe, but I'm not sure. Could they just be past their prime? I think the "tart" flavors are like a lemon-zest, but it's not lemony at all.

    Today's beer has a best buy date of May 8, 2014, so it's not too old. Nonetheless, how long can a Pils stay in the good-flavor range? I would say 6 months to a year bottled with a tightly sealed crown-cork.

    Anyway, Gampertbräu's Förster-Pils is ready to be teed up.
    How they describe it on their website:

    "Unser Spitzenprodukt aus dem Bierdorf Weißenbrunn.
    Ein fränkisches Pils mit spritzigem Trunk und betonter Hopfennote."

    or...

    "Our top-of-the-line product from the beer-village Weißenbrunn.
    A fränkisches Pils with spritzy Drinking and emphatic hop notes."


    [​IMG]

    Appearance: It's a German Pils, and looks like all others, which means clear deep golden under a show white head.

    Aroma: Pils malt wafts up and hits you strongly from the glass, and a slight hint of grassy Noble hops.

    Flavor:
    Up front: Quite a nice bit of bitterness mixed with a little Pils malt flavors, feels almost but not quite peppery in spiciness.

    Middle: Again, nice bitterness bite, and some tartness with hints of circusy flavor mixed in.

    Back: Yet again, a decent amount of bitterness and Pils malt flavors, sweet toasty, some light grass. Nice.

    Aftertaste: Mostly Pils malt sweetness and here... hefty bitterness that borders on pepperiness.

    Mouthfeel: Average soft but robust Pils feel in the mouth.

    Overall: You could call this the herbste or hoppiest beers I've had from the Franken area. It really lays on the hops but I feel it could be stronger towards the Pils malt sweetness. If you like a hoppy beer, not an IPA-hoppy, but a pure Noble hopped beer with spiciness, peppery-ish, a little grassiness, and very robust bitterness, but that still doesn't even go near "over the top" and stays within a gemütlich bitterness zone, and you're needing too much pils malt sweetness, then here's your beer. It's not a Norther German Pils, for it still rounds the flavor and softens the bitterness bite with splashes of bready, toasty, dare I say crackery sweet Pils malt. mmmm, a 4.3 of 5.
     
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