Regional Rating Bias

Ya and the weather sucks, rains so much dogs mold and the only breakfast you can get is crunchy granola.

 

I'm definitely in the camp that there is a large homerism bias, especially with trading being such a prevalent part of the craft beer culture now. With high demand for the next big thing, people stand to benefit from artificially inflating beers that are local and easier for them to acquire, in order to stand a chance in the trading market. Obviously we live in a supply and demand society where demand outweighs the small supply of certain beers, but there is a substantial amount of manipulation in the marketplace, especially from my region, which I find to be really obnoxious.

 

There was an interesting feature of the old site, maybe it's still here and I just don't know where to look? But you could see who was on BA at any one time. I used to check it often and it was a rare day that had more than 6 Oregon BAs on at one time. Fewer users means fewer hommers. Oregon does have a LOT of good beer so I imagine the pressure for rate inflation for trade purposes is also pretty low.

 

Having lived in SF, LA, NYC, Chicago, Portland, and Seattle, I would tend to agree that PNW folks rate their locals a bit lower than comparable quality beers from elsewhere. You don't even have to look to Boneyard. Nobody really hypes Ace of Spades and Laurelwood rarely brews Megafauna, but those two beers hold their own with some much higher rated double IPAs from other regions. But I'm not sure I'd call this reverse homerism; maybe cynical homerism? PNW people - and I grew up here, so I'm speaking as a well-traveled insider - both love the northwest and wouldn't live anywhere else ... but also love to deprecate it. We can insult the northwest but we'll be dismissive of the insults that come from outsiders.

That said, I think there are some rational reasons why we may under-rate local beers.

1. A lot of beers are consumed at bars - there's simply a higher proportion of craft beer consumed out here than just about anywhere else. So let's say I'm out at a bar that does half pint pours and I have 4 or 5 ... I start to sub-consciously calibrate ratings against one another. If they're all good but not mind-blowing, I may have a hard time distinguishing between say a 3.5 and a 4 and just end up going with a vanilla rating to leave room for whichever beer I liked best.

2. Many beers aren't bottled at all. This plays in to the point above ... and the point that follows.

3. It seems like fewer people out here bother to rate and review. Are you going to bother adding all these beers that aren't bottled just for the sake of rating and reviewing when you're not even sure they'll be brewed again?

4. It seems like fewer PNW folks trade. This sort of leads to an "us and them" rating scale; you may end up rating locals on one scale and other beers on a scale that gets bonus points for novelty. I won't claim that other regions are hyping up their beers to pump trade value or that people have a tendency to rate beers they've traded for more generously due to the effort invested or the "peer pressure" ... but those behaviors certainly wouldn't be surprising.

5. Many local beers are, if not session beers, of moderate styles. Again, I think this comes from the first point; if people are drinking a lot of local beer at bars, they're probably not going to want everything to be a bourbon barrel aged imperial malt ball stout sugar bomb at 19% abv. So for the people that argue bigger = "more taste" there's going to be a downgrading.

6. Realism. This is totally subjective, but I feel like PNW folks have a realist bent - neither excessively optimistic nor pessimistic - so "we" tend to buy into the fact that a beer rated 3 really is "ok" and a 3.5 is "good". I think many people come to this site and see a 3.5 and think "that's not even worth putting in my mouth." Out here I think people accept that a good food friendly beer is probably going to be a 3.5 - 4 type of beer; something that's tasty but not so extreme it's going to compete with what your eating.

7. Experimentation. This is part of points 1 and 2. Many breweries make a lot of different beers. I think De Garde is going to make something like 100 beers this year. Breakside will do well over 100. I think people are will to try a lot of different beers and appreciate the variety, not expected everything to be a face ripping world class beer.

To support a few of these points, I just looked at Breakside's profile. There are 50+ beers listed which doesn't even come close to what they're brewing. I've had a handful in recent days that aren't listed. Only 10 of those have more than 10 ratings; 44 have 5 or fewer. 34 have an ABV under 7 ... and this isn't counting the ones that don't have an abv listed but are certainly under 7 (some pale ales for example).

 

If its not from my state i automatically deduct one to two points from my rating depending where it's from. Outsiders must EARN my pallate's respect.

 

@HOP_KING seems to be the first name that comes to mind when I read this thread

 

Plus, take in overall grade inflation. We've countless examples of the "I only drink things rated 4 or above" attitude. Those folks are going to be inclined to rate things higher, so that they (in their own minds) are keeping their standards up. A couple months ago I entered a review, I scrolled through a few reviews, and saw one where the guy jusr ripped the beer to shreds in every aspect, drain-poured the beer, and still he ended up giving it a numerical score of just under 3. I shot him a BM about it, just out of curiosity, and his reply was along the lines of "well, the brewer tried hard, and I've liked other things by these guys, and and anything that's not just awesome isn't very good". My take? Ignore the numerical scores. Homerism, grade inflation, and egos, shouldn't prevent you from trying what may become a personal favorite.

 

Are you sure you're from Sconnie and Michigan?

 

Yeah I've seen so many reviews where the body of the review indicates that a beer is mediocre, then the person ends up giving the beer a 4+

 

Agreed. Reading the descriptions of beers is way more useful than it's numerical score.

 

I've noticed another phenomenon. In threads/polls asking which is the best beer city in the U.S., San Diego always beats Portland. Having been to both cities relatively recently, I can assure all of you that this is pure horseshit.

 

I'll explain my comment a little bit.

When people talk about Portland, they mean the city of Portland. All 145 square miles of it, which is reportedly home to more breweries than any other city on earth.

When people talk about San Diego, on the other hand, they usually mean all of San Diego County (4,525 square miles). Even on this site, "San Diego" includes Escondido, San Marcos, Alpine, Santee, Oceanside, Vista, etc... So we're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

Now, if you concentrated all the breweries in San Diego County into an area the size of Portland—which, by the way, is 3% as big—then you might have a reasonable argument. But as it stands, strictly comparing the city of San Diego with the city of Portland, it's not even close. I'd also argue that Portland has more diversity of beer than San Diego, although I'm sure that's continually changing.

As to your second point, how much of a pain is it to get bottles in PDX? I found it far more of a hassle in SD where you had to spend 20 minutes on the freeway just to get anywhere. Portland has several very good bottle shops within a couple square miles of each other.

Bottom line, in every measurable way, I think Portland beats San Diego handily.

 

Great post OP. Funny how people look at it.

Vermont-- overrated. Scarcity and hype. Cannot imagine this not driven by the hype from non-locals

PNW--under the radar. Great stuff, real people--so much that it seems taken for granted.

Seems to me people undervalue their back yard and overvalue scarcity and hype.

 

Would like to give my home state top brewer some love. But, I have to wonder if head brewer, Michael S. Was just pacifying all of us in the Hawkeye State. Still not seeing more bottles in DSM AREA. Seems other BA members have realized the same thing. Do I dare say TOPPLING GOLIATH IS WISCONSIN's best brewery!? Tell me I'm wrong, TG!

 

I think it's probably safe to say that in Portland (and all of Oregon, and for that matter Washington too) beer is made by locals for locals—which is probably why the growler/tap culture is more advanced, but also why a tourist wanting to take home a bunch of the best beers the PNW has to offer might find himself frustrated. Hell, I live in Seattle and I haven't had a lot of the best beers from Washington or Oregon because they are tap only and I don't spend much time at breweries or beer bars.

By contrast, it seems California (and especially SoCal) seems bent on world domination. The culture there is more set up for much bigger production and export to other states and even countries. In this sense there is not necessarily a better or worse, just different.

 

You don't need to say it "seems" It is easily proven by simply looking at the top beers by region. There are more reviews of the top five Pacific (California) region than all of the 50 top Northwest beers combined. Proof the PNW BAs are fewer and less likely to review every beer they drink. As it's been noted there is also a very strong tendency up here to have very small breweries producing outstanding beer in very small quantities. For instance the second largest brewery in Newport Oregon (Rogue is the biggest) is Newport Brewing, available at ONE location. (Bier One) Newport Brewing produces some great stuff, Barrel aged stouts, IIPAs, Berlinerweise, Saisons and more. It's like that all over the State.

 

I know what you mean. As much as I love San Diego beers I must say I had Elysian Dayglow not too long ago and thought it was one of the best IPAs I've had. Up there with a lot of "world class" IPAs, but at the time it was only rated an 88 and now it's up to 90.

 

My addition here might be odd, but here we go.

I look upon beers from my home states of Ohio and Michigan with fondness. But thats deserved, theres some damn great breweries there. Great Lakes, Thirsty Dog, Hoppin Frog, Jackie Os, Fifty West, Founders, Bells, Kuhnhenn, Dark Horse, and Odd Side just kill it. I've been doing my best to keep up on the micro Ohio breweries like Weasel Boy, 4 String, Phoenix, Maumee Bay, Marietta, Columbus Brewing, and Market Garden. Those breweries get somewhere around a half point bonus for homerism.

Now I live in NC. Ill always give a bonus point to someone that uses all local ingredients. Being from a corn field in Ohio, this makes sense. Here in NC, Fullsteam does this as well as they can (@peetoteeto, rock on). Also, the beer is tasty in a bottle and can! Some of the locals have spoiled me in RDU (I honestly would put Steel String--an uber-micro brewery in Carrboro, NC--up against the grandfathers in this state).

I give all of these guys a little boost in ratings because theyre my locals. Now when I travel or am offered beers from someone across the country, I always shoot for locals. I just got in touch with @ONovoMexicano. Of course I asked for locals which he in turn shot back La Cumbre (pre-emptive thanks bro). When the gf goes back the Buffalo, I just ask for Flower Power and anything I dont recognize the name.

Maybe I just love locals and micro brews, idk.