So i have a single tap kegerator that has both co2 lines and nitrogen lines so i can enjoy my favorite stouts/porters with nitrogen, while enjoying my favorite ipa's with co2. That being said, in order to experience both co2 and nitrogen with the same beer, could i drink half the keg with co2 and then switch it to nitrogen for the second half of the same keg? Or would complications arise upon trying this? Just wanted to know some feedback from someone with a little more experience than me, cheers.
Complications would definitely arise. When reference is made to nitrogen in beer you are really talking about beer gas which is a blend of nitrogen and carbon dioxide. Rather than give you a long winded response, search Google for "how does beer gas work" and you'll get a more clear answer than what I can provide.
what he says. are you using this set up now? one keg has beer gas and the other 100% CO2? and you are using a stout faucet with the beer gas keg? you can switch back and forth. unfortunately, maintaining the proper level of CO2 in the keg is going to be a major headache, and not worth the effort. any beer can be dispensed with beer gas, and it is being done all the time in bars across the world. home owners do not need beer gas unless they want Guinness and are using a dedicated stout faucet. but not all beers are meant to be poured through a stout faucet. messing around with that set-up is not recommended. feel free to provide specific set-up questions, but the answer is mostly going to be the same; you can. don't do it. Cheers.
I can now get Guinness in 1/6 kegs. Here is my situation: I want to run Guinness and a regular beer on the other tap. I have a home bar with one kegerator and two taps. I have a dual pressure gauge to allow different pressures on either sixtel. My gas supplier will fill my CO2 tank with any NO2/CO2 mix I ask for. I'm assuming I can use the same regulator being that the adapter seems to just be for female/male threads on NO2 vs CO2 bottles. What I am asking is has anyone actually used Guinness gas (75/25) or any beer gas mix to push regular beer and a nitro beer in a home bar situation with success? I worked as a brewer in a brewpub 15 yrs ago and know for a fact we used the same beer gas mixture to push nitro and regular beers. (The head pressure on all our bright tanks was the same so we used an inline pump to boost presure for nitro fauset beers) I also know the gas supplier was supplying dozens of regular bars with it as well. It was a 60/40 or 70/30 mix but I can't remember for sure which was the higher %.....but I think it was NO2. We did not have an issue with beer going flat but if we would I have, I had the means to fix it easily. I have done quite a bit of research and have found a mix of science and speculation. I want to get 75/25 and use it for everything but every supplier tech is telling me the regular beer will go flat. I'm confused on the physics of that and they don't seem to have any actual experience...just advice.
The physics are fairly straight forward: Dalton's Law states the total pressure in a mixture of gases is equal to the sum of the partial pressures of the individual gasses. With pure CO2 there is only one gas, so what you set on the gauge (total pressure) is the pressure of the CO2. With mixed gases this all changes. With a 75/25 beer gas mix only 1/4 of the pressure is from CO2, the other 3/4 is from the nitrogen. But, nitrogen is largely insoluble in water (beer), although a trace amount dissolves but can largely be ignored. Your Guinness must still be carbonated, but with a beer gas of 75/25 only 1/4 of the pressure is from the CO2. So if you wanted a carb level of 2.0v at 40F you need a partial pressure of CO2 of ~7psi. To get this you must have a total pressure of 28psi. This is easy to achieve and the stout faucet gives you a nice Guinness pour. Now if you use the same gas (75/25) on regular ale (say 2.5v at 40F), you will need a partial pressure of CO2 of ~12psi. To reach this your total pressure must be 48psi. This will carbonate your regular ale with no problems, but I can imagine how "disturbed" the pour will be. If you want to serve a Saison, typically 3.0v, you would need 18psi of CO2 which means you have to crank the total pressure up to 72psi. You can see the advantages of adjusting your mix ratio to a higher percentage of CO2 to accommodate the higher carb levels. You have a couple of options: (1) To use beer gas for your non-nitro beers you can lengthen your lines to provide resistance, this will reduce the dispensing pressure and hopefully result in a decent pour. This goes on all the time in bars that have a long beer-line run. A higher pressure is used to literally push the beer the longer distance, the reduced CO2 level is adjusted to provide the correct carb level. Remember, the CO2 is dissolved in the beer but the N2 is insoluble . . . the pressure from it is just used to push the beer. But it is vital that the partial pressure of CO2 is set to achieve the correct carb level . . . whether the line is 4 feet or 40 feet. My local brewpub has a nitrogen generator that blends nitrogen with carbon dioxide and boosts the pressure high enough to push the beer a long distance (50+ feet). The math gets a little bit sticky here; variables are gas mix ratio, carb level, distance, line diameter . . . but it's a one time deal. (2)The easiest method would be to get a dedicated beer-gas tank. You make reference above to NO2 . . . pretty sure you meant beer gas and not nitrogen dioxide.
However, when used beer gas the bright tanks, which are basically big kegs had the same head pressure all around...like 15lbs. The pressure was increased by an inline pump. Nothing even close to 48lbs and the beer NEVER went flat.
I looked up Dalton's Law. The way I read it is that if you change the composition of a gas in a container than the pressure will change...or the same volume of one gas has a different pressure in a container than a similar volume of another gas. But head pressure should be head pressure..No? The way beer gas was sold to us 15 years ago was that we could up the tank/line pressures without worrying about OVER carbonation because the nitrogen wouldn't dissolve and there was less CO2 to dissolve.
You can keep beating this dead horse on here and on micromatic's forum, but you've gotten the same answer twice. Do what you want.
This is not exactly correct. In a container of non-reacting homogenous gases each molecule will have the same pressure. When you set your regulator to 50 psi, then the pressure of each molecule of gas exiting the reg must equal to the sum of the total pressure. With air the partial pressure of O2 is 21% and nitrogen is 79% (standard temp and ignoring trace elements). If you double the pressure of air then the partial pressure O2 will double to 42% and N2 will be 158%. Absolutely . Pretty sure nothing has changed with how beer gas interacts with beer. Typically the mix ratio can be changed to give the desired carb level at reduced level (i.e. change from 75/25 to 60/40). This would allow a lower total pressure to achieve the same carb level. What gas was used for this head pressure? Pretty sure it wasn't a 75/25, could it have been pure CO2? If you really want to use a nitro mix on regular beer it can be made to work. My local pub pushes all of it's beer with an N2/CO2 blend and they get good pours. My guess it you will need 30'ish feet of line to give you the proper dispensing pressure. You can find beer-line length calculators with a Google search.
We had a 60/40 mix and the head pressure was 15 lbs. Bright tanks would blow their doors off with the type of pressure people are saying you would need to prevent flat beer.
since we are not talking about bright tanks here, I am not sure what point you are making. back in February I stated that "you can, but don't". you may more readily see why my advice still stands. Guinness wants 75/25 blend. with about 9 pounds resistance you would want to set your regulator at 28 to 30 psi. at one system we dispense 4 nitro stouts over 65 feet and up 8 feet with 75/25 at 30 psi. you would need to calculate your resistance. it can be done and it isn't too difficult unless you make it so. forget about 60/40 for a direct draw system. it is not needed. use beer gas and an N regulator for the Guinness. use CO2 and a CO2 regulator for everything else. Cheers.
Bright tanks are just really big kegs brew pubs store and serve beer out of. I don't see the difference physics wise from a keg. With the exception that big bright tanks can't structural hold anywhere near the pressure. As for regulators, what is the exact difference between a N and CO2 regulator? Various outlets sell adapters that seem to only adapt for female vs male threads
bright tanks are not just really big kegs. kegs are moved around the country, trucked, dropped, rolled, cleaned, kicked dented and otherwise abused. kegs are a lot more sturdy than a bright tank. a bright tank is not at all the same as a keg and is not designed the same. there is more to it than appearance. the beer inside doesn't care though. N gas is held under very high pressure, 2,000 psi. an N regulator is designed for this pressure. CO2 is held under merely high pressure and does not need to withstand the same pressures where the gas outlet is stepped down. there are convertors but the reason an N tank is reverse thread and the male/female is backwards is mostly to force the inexperienced or perhaps someone who knows just enough to be dangerous from doing something they should not. Cheers.
Sorry dude but people on this thread seemed to have actual experience with what I was asking plus a more scientific explanation. I will only research things in place from now on if that makes better sense
Run one tank from outside, there is a drain hole in the shelf that you could enlarge so you don't have to cut one in the side or back.
They definitely do have the experience, you just weren't very ready to accept what they were telling you.
Because I have experience that differs a bit and there tend to be a lot if internet rumors that are professed as truth
