USA #1 in beer?

Of course it works both ways, its not a cultural thing it’s a human thing and has characterized the human race throughout its history.

But the discussion is not about the value added of experiencing the culture first hand (which nobody has really denied on either side of the discussion) it is, or should be, about the relative strengths and weaknesses on both sides. (And first hand experience is not an either or condition to knowledge, it is value added.) But ignoring the "wastelands" in any of the beer countries, and they do exist in all, while selectively touting the islands of quality as representative of the whole isn't helpful. Nor is selecting an example of the best to make the case while ignoring the below average. Its counter productive regardless of which side one comes down on. My personal take is that we want to know, nourish and preserve the best while letting the rest die a natural death, which it will eventually do if we truly know and nourish the best and the spirit of seeking to improve on that best.

 

Back up just a bit to provide more contextual information. What are the top three selling beers in the UK? Why was CAMRA formed? How many Pubs have gone out of business in the last 5 years? How many of them have been replaced by bars and how many of them have been replaced by proper Pubs? Frankly I'd say that while the UK can arguably be said to have the most pervasive national beer culture, it has been at serious risk until quite recently.

Edit: and BTW if you want to use specific geographical areas you should also stick to comparable population size, i.e., population of UK to population of California. In some ways the US is more like the EU than it is like a single country. For example, while we have (sort of) the same language, there are regions where other languages are still the first language. We have no single national governing body for elementary education there are 50,000 local school boards in 52 different political entities that set educational policies for their local area.

 

I have yet to find any US brewed Hefeweizen that comes anywhere close to good German ones. There are some good pils and lagers, but still not up to German quality. Koelsch still remains a mystery to American brewers. Two years ago, if someone told me that Gose would become popular in the US, I would have laughed.

 

Stephen,Stephen, Stephen, Stephen!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree with most of what you say. And while I'm not necessarily trying to ignore the wastelands that exist in each of these place, I do not feel that comparing our macros to Europe's helps to further discussion or debate much. The weaknesses (and dangers) are the same the world over. I, too, would rather focus on what is best about each culture. In the U.S., this may well be "variety," as many have touted here. In Germany it may well be a singular focus on, and devotion to, a handful of regional styles that they have more or less perfected. But what I am hearing from people who have never left their home country (on both sides) is that their way is the best and that the culture of places like Koeln or Duesseldorf would be improved if their breweries would only start producing Berliner Weisse, Belgian wit, and IPAs (and the U.S. if they could only make a proper Pils). So while experiencing these cultures first-hand may only seem like a value-added proposition to you, it may be the only way to combat the rampant ignorance that leads on the one extreme to monolithic mass-produced pils and on the other to the "tyranny of variety."

 

One problem with the type of comparison being drawn is that while there may not be a US Hefe as good as the best to be found in Germany, there are at least some. In Germany there are entire regions where there is no Hefe to be found at all. Further more where Hefes are to be found there are many that are not particularly good either.

 

Where in Germany can no Hefeweizen be found at all? (EDIT: also, please indicate which ones in Germany are not 'good')

 

Imperial Kellerbier
Red Kellerbier
Black Kellerbier
Session Kellerbier

 

Like Happy Valley

 

Once upon a time in Vienna I was engaged in a chat with a Vinnese colleague who informed me that US food was all the same throughout the US country. Upon inquiry I discovered that his travels had taken him to many places and that he stayed in places such as Marriotts and Hiltons and usually sampled from the "local" dishes on offer in their restaurant (which meant he'd never had lobster in New England, Cheesesteak in Philly nor Brunswick stew or grits).

During another chat he confidently assured me that two of the great things about Vienna was that there was only one McDonalds in the central district and that when you'd go into anyplace in Vienna for a meal and/or coffee they didn't bring you the check until you asked for it so there was no pressure to move on. He was more than a bit irritated with me when I reminded him of shared visits to the (at that time) 3 different McDonalds in the Central district and the two of the places we had been that were part of different Viennese chains where they brought us our food/beverage and the check at the same time.

 

I'd have to go back to the Germany forum to identify for you the locations that have been mentioned there. Perhaps later.

Correction to earlier comments. What I was thinking of was a survey I read about indicating that 36% of the German's surveyed had never drunk an Hefe, and that it was Rauchbier and Bock that were virtually unknown to German beer drinkers. That does not entail that the beers are not availble, just that people don't drink them.

Apologies for the error.

 

The northern most brewery in Germany- Flensburger- on the Danish border, does a Hefe that Bavarians would probably not drink.

 

If you are looking for high quality US craft brewed Hefeweizen beers permit me to suggest:

· New Glarus Dancing Man

· Live Oak Hefeweizen

· Stoudts Heifer-n-Wheat

· Troegs Dreamweaver Wheat

· Sly Fox Royal Weisse

· Victory Sunrise

· Victory Mad King Weisse

· Iron Hill Hefeweizen

· Sierra Nevada Kellerweis

· Etc.

I will not state that the above beers (or any one of the above beers) are “better” than Hefeweizen beers brewed in Germany since I do not know your palate. I will state that I have enjoyed many of the above beers more than the majority of the German Hefeweizen beers that I drank. One caveat is that I greatly enjoy a fresh Weihenstephan Hefeweizen when I can find one.

Cheers!

 

I know these such conversations well. And I especially know how irritated people can get when I point out their willed ignorance.

 

Yeah, I was munging together two things and created an error. See my correction in reply to a query by Herrburgess.

 

They you also know that for most people, pointing out their lack of knowledge doesn't lead to change, just irritation.

 

“…pointing out their lack of knowledge doesn't lead to change, just irritation.”

I know somebody like that!

Cheers!

 

Don't see why the Viennese should be the only ones to get a bit irritated at times.

 

I have been to alot of pubs in England and Scotland and they are not any different to the neighborhood bars found all over the states in my opinion. Same as cafe's. Going to the Augustiener Biergarten is a unique experience because of its overall size and atmosphere and food choices.

 

Have you been to NYC? If so, can you point me in the direction of a place that closely emulates a British pub. Been living here for 6 years and have yet to find one. Double Windsor gets an honorable mention, but that's about it.