Pope AK Malt Bill Discussion

Optic? Golden Promise? Those were both mentioned in the blog by Kristen.

 

Yeah, if someone can list what Pale Malts would have been common in the period, that would help. Maybe not dictate (by a vote) which ones to use, but at least to inform about the most accurate choices.

 

A little bit of reading from Ron's blog

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1896-eldridge-pope.html
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/01/eldridge-pope-beers-in-1896-1897.html
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/01/eldridge-pope-grists-1896-1897.html

Kristen specifically mentions Golden Promise and I love GP, but I agree that it would be nice to know what else might have been used at the time.

Kristen mentions in the comments that WPL099 is the Hardy yeast, so that might be an easy decision when that time comes

Also thought this was interesting "One point about the recipe. One ingredient is listed as "flake". Kristen has taken it to mean flaked barley. I think it's flaked maize. Mostly because I've never seen flaked barley in a 19th century recipe."

 

I imagine any of the british pale malts will suffice, I'm going to use MO as that's what I have lots of and I like it. As for the continental I might get some german pils in or dingemans PA, which is french grown optic I think

It's going to be the sugar and hops that will give most of the flavour here

 

The barley that was possibly used back then was Chavalier


Martyn Cornell wrote about it
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/20...rley-variety-thrills-fans-of-old-beer-styles/

some interesting points about the higher protein

but for the purpose of this recipe I'm not sure there's much point in worrying too much about the difference?

 

MO is a throw back to the 60's. Malts used in the 1890s will be impossible to find in wide distribution.

I would say use MO or GP and go from there.

 

I wonder which of the two (if either) would be most like the Chavalier.

 

Plumage Archer, but try and find that one.

 

It's Chevalier btw, I made a typo

It appears Duchy Originals organic beers are made with Plumage Archer, from what I remember of them they were rather middling, mainly because they were brewed by Wychwood. That doesn't help any I know

 

Chevalier would be the best barley to use. There are quantities of it being grown commercially now. But really tiny amouts so far.

 

We may have to wait until it shows up in the homebrew supply channels in the US. That might take some time.

 

Ultimately, malts will be limited by the commonly found varieties.

Maris otter, Optic, Halcyon, Pearl, and Golden Promise seem to be the English varieties I commonly see. Kirsten mentions Tipple, which I have never seen for sale. He also suggests blending GP and MO (I think) 50/50. Does anyone here feel comfortable describing perceived differences among these different varieties?

And that might not be the right way to think about it. I feel like so much depends on how it's malted that perhaps that is where our attentions should lie. Does anyone feel comfortable describing perceived differences among specific English maltsters base malt products?

What sort of continental pale malt would have been used back then, and what are our options today? Usually when I brew with continental malts, it is German Pils, Belgian Pils, or Belgian Pale Ale. Kirsten gives no details here. Do we every consider variety in these malts (I guess some Pils are Moravian -- does that actually refer to a cultivar or is it strictly geographical?)

Lots of rambling thoughts and questions. When does that Malt book come out? I haven't even gotten to type of maize yet, let alone invert syrup.

 

One can make some decisions based on the Lovibond of the malt for a variety.

Simpsons GP at 2L is lighter that Thomas Fawcett at 3.5L, and the Simpson is a little sweeter, TF is toasy-sweet.
The MO from Warminster is about 4.5L, and gives a rich toasty flavor to the beer. Crisp MO is given as 2.5-4.0L per the Crisp malt analysis page, for example. Many of the other MO malts and English malts are 2.5-3.5 on the Northern Brewer page.

I have used Muntons Pearl at 3L, and while it tasted "British Malt" it did not stand out as memorable, so the next bag was back to Crisp MO.

The variety that is associated with Moravia was Hana, and many of the current European Pilsner malts used are descendants of that.

Edit - John Mallett's malt book comes out this December.

 

Peter (@pweis909 ) I think you have an excellent point in that the selection of a particular malting company could be just as important (more important?) than the selection of malt variety for making this beer. Jeff made some good observations concerning Golden Promise and Marris Otter from various maltsters.

I have brewed with Crisp Maris Otter and Warminster Maris Otter to make the same beer and the difference in the resulting beer was very noticeable.

Cheers!

 

Crikey. So if anyone knows, which one of those commonly available english malts/maltsters would be most like the Chevalier derived malt that would have been used back in the day, from a color and/or fermentability standpoint?

 

Not a clue. It depends on what the variety brings, and how it is malted. Maybe Ron has wisdom on this.

 

"It depends on what the variety brings, and how it is malted." Yea verily!

Cheers!

 

Perhaps, we could try to fit a base malt that achieves the overall SRM reported in the recipe - but that hinges on the color of the invert syrup. There probably is some knowledge of the color contribution of #2 syrup. However, we need to see the forest for the trees.

 

I'd imagine he'd be using along the lines of

no1 - 30 EBC
no2 - 65 EBC
no3 - 130 EBC

for the syrup