Märican Biere Bought and Drunk...

"Respectful distance" seems accurate, I think one of the elements of that is also historical. I mean, if you look at German history it almost makes sense that we can appear somewhat "stand-offish". I mean we had one conservative period of pseudo-imperialism followed by another period of conservative imperialism and political radicalism, in which - for some, it was hard to know who to trust. I also find some forms of American "reciprocity" very odd - when I was in Florida certain people tried to "guilt-trip" me via some notion of "reciprocity" to do something for them. Maybe that was an isolated incident, something specific to that area but that's something I personally find to be incredibly inadequate behavior regardless of circumstance. I'd much rather someone just ask me to help them without all the added flair of "you owe me".

Nice analogy, Stein. I actually feel similar, I'm still a bit on the fence about Pils because I haven't yet had too many good ones. I still want to try the Schönramer, supposedly that one's pretty damn good. Otherwise, I'm not the biggest fan of every uber-hoppy beer, esepcially when it's just for the sake of HOPS!11!1!1!11!!1one. I just feel I need some balance, the tastes need to complement or play off each other. That's why I like a bunch of BrewDog stuff and Stone's Levitation, I just like how they use the hops. Same goes for Firestone's Pale. (still gotta try that Union Jack) Right now, I'm just wondering how Sierra's Barleywine's gonna be - one of the things on top of my list in terms of American stuff available here.

 

"Waldhaus Ohne Filter Extra Herb" Woo-Hoo!

Cheers!

 

Fortunately for your palate, the traditional Pilsners in Germany aren't brewed this way; just the right hop character to let you know that it's not Helles in your Krug.

 

Rothaus is alright, but I'd chose my usual staples over them any day. Haven't tried the other ones.

Well, I wasn't referring to Pils. Pils generally seems to be very light in taste - I was referring more to American beers, IPAs and somesuch. I think the hoppiest beer I really dug was Dogfish's 90. Did not like one of the Lagunitas staples I've tried.

 

Was the "otherwise" in your train of thoughts linking being on the fence about Pilsner and not being a fan of hoppy beers that led me to that belief.

The thing is, Pilsners can be hoppy, just not (usually) in the same manner U.S. beers have evolved. I love a good Pilsner hopped up with traditional noble hops.

 

When I was in Germany last fall, I didn't run into any surly or rude staff at any place we went to. Since almost all of them laughed at my bad German, I found it to be a very cheerful place.

Seriously, I can only recall being treated poorly in one instance and when they realized we going to wait until we got seated, we got a table.

But I'm not big on small talk so if people seated with us or the wait staff didn't chat with us, it didn't bother me. While I know we didn't fool any one, we made an effort to not be the stereotypical American tourist.

 

Odd thread hijack. Just my $.02...

I believe that @JHDStein probably mirrored my thoughts the best. I lived in Germany for 16 years - 16 painful years of Lebensmitteleinzelhandel (supermarket business) and on-premise bar & restaurant sales, both as a distributor and as a customer. The aforementioned experiences in most service sectors is not a piece of our imagination, but rather a common cliche about Germany and it's Volk (a cliche only works if it's basically true). The "problem" (if you don't see it that way, you probably are conditioned differently as mentioned) is so prevalent that there are numerous chapters in books about getting acquainted with Germans/Germany, hours spent in language schools with foreigners discussing the topic, and I can note that I have attended no less than 5 seminars about "Servicewüste Deutschland". The lack of improvement (maybe it has?) can probably be attributed to the "so haben wir das immer so gemacht" mentality - the most commonly spoken phrase in Germany, for better or for worse.

Don't get me wrong - I love Germany and so much about it. But this, combined with the eternal pessimist mentality, blended with the dreariest weather from October to April, made everyday life miserable on so many fronts. Don't believe me? Ask any German ex-pat why they left and you will find these on the top of most lists. They were on the top of mine when I left.

 

I can't comment on how working in such industries is - as to be entirely honest, these are jobs that are considered some of the worst jobs you could possibly get together with working retail and being a craftsman. The former specifically because of the work environment. And as I said earlier, I think it also depends on what exactly we're referring to. Again, I don't think you can expect "great service" from somebody stocking shelves. I never said it was something conjured out of nowhere - I just said I was skeptical as to it's universal validity across geographical locations and regional cultures.

I doubt a cultural tendency that apparently seems so ingrained can be described with one single monocausality, things are rarely as simple as that. I mean that's probably a contributing factor in some cases, but probably not something that can be said for every instance. I wouldn't be surprised if even institutional pathologies and economic structures contribute to that. Germans across the board are certainly not good at dealing with "failure" (which could easily destroy someone's motivation from the get-go if their higher ups start raging about it).

Idk about "eternal pessimist" mentality, either. I guess it also depends which kind of age groups and social circles you have to do. Considering that my social circle is relatively young and mostly within the age range of 17-30 I think there may also be a good deal of generational gaps. I can definitely agree about the dreary weather.

I mean, I don't even entirely plan on staying here for another 10 years if I can avoid it but it's not like this is a "bad country". Gotta love having all kinds of affordable insurance and adequate legal protection that's widely available and enforced/enforcable. (probably one of the major factors that would deter me from relocating to the U.S.)

 

I thought I remember you saying you are German... how long have you lived there?

 

My whole life pretty much, so for the past ~22 years.

 

Huh. I was in Germany before you.

 

I am lucky I wasn't. Especially not in Eastern Germany.

 

Huh? By whom are those jobs considered "some of the worst jobs"?

 

22 and prejudices against Eastern Germany? Good god...

 

Prejudice? Prejudice that it was one quasi-totalitarian system switched for another? Prejudice that Eastern Germany was extremely restricted in terms of availability of goods and services? Prejudice that it would take a few decades for Eastern Germans to adapt to a non-command economy? Prejudice, that the people there had to live under circumstances that made them cross the border? Prejudice, that that political tirade that went on there separated people for years and decades? Is the next thing you want to tell me that the Stalin note was ever anything that administration was serious aboute? So yeah, my statement was not some old stereotype about Westernes being condescending - it was referring to the DDR.

Also: By some of the people working in that exact industry, mostly because of the work environment - possibly also because (again) Germans have a tendency to be bad at handling failures and slip-ups (which are pretty much bound to happen in a job based on flexible factors). Obviously that statement was never meant to claim any universal validity.

 

I just missed that party too.

 

Heh, so it's not THAT long before I was here.
Idk, I liked growing up with portable music and internet - I also feel it can be a lot easier for my generation to adapt to rapid change than it is for people of my parent's generation.

 

Nope. But I didn't miss the party by much either -- if you never got to experience driving the Autobahn from Nuremberg to Berlin, with all of the watch towers along the eastern leg, you just can't understand the anxious feeling.

You just don't know what it was like before, and what you weren't missing! Besides, never heard of the Walk Man?

Write that down, wait a couple decades, and see how you feel then. Perspective is a great equalizer!

 

I don't think I want to. I don't even own a car or a driver's license for that matter, stuff's too expensive and the opportunity costs for a student like me (read: with no upper middle class parents' financial backing) are too high.

That is incorrect, I still experienced walk-men and CD players. I prefer MP3 - also for cars. (wouldn't wanna own the two gazillion CDs and keep track of them like my buddy does)

I don't believe in the Nietzschean concept of cyclical history. Also: Neuroplasticity and the self-reinforcing nature of neural pathways, determined in the early 20s to mid 20s. ;D