Anchor Liberty Ale

What you must understand is that in 1974-5, there was no AIPA, despite many US brewers making IPAs - these were based on the classic, lesser hop-fwd UK IPA.
I'm glad this site finally changed the style, as Anchor's info has been the same since at least '03 when I started selling the brand...

 

In the 1970's the only US IPA left would have been Ballantine India Pale Ale (a beer Maytag was very familiar with - along with the other Ballantine ales- he is the person who gave Michael Jackson his taste of the decades long-aged Ballantine Burton Ale, which was based on BIPA). Unlike the UK and Canadian IPA's of the time, Ballantine's was still highly hopped (using US hops) and had an high ABV (tied with OE 800 for the strongest beer in the US at the time.)

Tho' on it's way to be dumbed down by Falstaff, it was still 45 IBU's and 7.5 ABV according to Jackson. Under Ballantine (closed in 1972), the IBU's were listed at 60, which would have put the beer on the edge of today's criteria between IPA and DIPA.

The confusing aspect of Anchor's claim is that if they are saying that Anchor invented the "modern" AIPA style, then why claim it's the "first brewed after Prohibition"? Wouldn't it be the "first", period? Were "modern" AIPA's brewed in the 19th century?

 

That's too true. They don't have to rely on misleading claims with that beer; it was innovative, being the first to really take advantage of the cascade hop's citrusy aromatic qualities. I bet they were trying to say just that, that it was the first 'newly formulated post-prohibition IPA' or some such thing, and unfortunately overstated their claim.

FWIW, though, as far back as the 1980s they did win medals with it as an IPA at the GABF. This was a time with a lot of fuzziness in what was considered an IPA, too. A lot of judges considered the style to be essentially English and would dock point for using American hops, so I guess they did pave some ground on that front. That also led to a lot of hair-splitting over why Liberty was an IPA while SNPA was a Pale Ale. I believe that some time around 1996 the substyle of 'American IPA' was introduced just to end the confusion (and to give in to the inevitable, because a lot of American-hopped IPAs were being brewed by then).

The distinction of what to call Liberty didn't really matter to me then, and it doesn't really matter now: AIPA is more of an outgrowth of the APA style than the English one, and Liberty falls nicely between those two colors on the 'feel-good rainbow' .

 

Yeah, I feel the same way about such arguments over which beer should be fit into which sub-sub-style.

"Why would I care- does it taste better as one than the other? "​

My concern in such threads is usually the claims of one side or the other making some definitive and absolute statement - which frequently proves to be easily dispelled.

I do think the current owners of Anchor (best known previously for Skyy Vodka) have a shaky history of US brewing industry. As I noted elsewhere in a previous thread on the topic IIRC, Anchor's position in the US brewing history is iconic - it seems unnecessary to make additional claims that simply don't hold up.

 

Maybe he meant it was the only good one available.

 

First of all, thanks for the history lesson. Interesting stuff. The original post was asking about why BA considers this an IPA. I think Anchor brewing knows the style they were brewing and we should take them at face value that Liberty Ale is an American IPA. That's why I said "Nuff said".
Secondly, I don't see where they claimed to "invent" anything.
Thirdly, I appreciate all the attention they are getting on this thread. As you mentioned, they are iconic. Anchor beers were my introduction to craft beer, after years of drinking European lagers and thinking that was the pinnacle of the beer experience. Cheers.

 

A revisionist claim? Are you saying marketing departments sometimes stretch the truth? Such heinous speculation will not go unpunished.

 

Well, at the time Liberty Ale was created, the brewery was owned and the beer designed by Fritz Maytag, who said "... I did not think of an India Pale Ale when I made it. That certainly would be a pretty close description in terms of hoppiness and all malt." So that is somewhat at odds with the current claim(s) - would someone as knowledgeable as Maytag develop a beer and not realize he was brewing an India Pale Ale? He seems to be saying only "Yeah, I can understand how now people see it as an IPA...".

Well, no - tho', that is the suggestion when a "first" is claimed, isn't it? "First single hop IPA" "first dry hopped Ale", etc.

But that particular comment of mine about my confusion at Liberty Ale being the first post-Prohibition "modern" IPA is in reference to others in the thread "explaining" what Anchor's claims mean - that it's the first AIPA.

 

Well, at the time Liberty Ale was created, the brewery was owned and the beer designed by Fritz Maytag, who said "... I did not think of an India Pale Ale when I made it. That certainly would be a pretty close description in terms of hoppiness and all malt." So that is somewhat at odds with the current claim(s) - would someone as knowledgeable as Maytag develop a beer and not realize he was brewing an India Pale Ale? He seems to be saying only "Yeah, I can understand how now people see it as an IPA...".

Where did you get that quote? You are ruining my self-esteem. If you can't trust websites what can you trust?

All of their claims about firsts are claims that they are the first modern example, not first ever, hence my questioning the "invent" statement. From their website: "The champagne-like bubbles, distinctive hop bouquet, and balanced character of Liberty Ale® revives centuries-old ale brewing traditions that are now more relevant than ever." Anchor has always presented themselves as a traditional brewery using time-honored techniques. Open air fermenters (Anchor Steam), single hop, dry hop, fresh whole cone hops, bunging, are all things that were done before and craft brewers are doing them today. How many were doing it in America in 1975? Cheers.

 

you can trust JK.
don't feel bad though as you have joined a long line of BAs that have given a prim ary source courtesy of JK.
Cheers.

 

Did you click on the quote for the source website? From an interview by beer writer Lew Bryson, originally published in Malt Advocate magazine.

And I question that convoluted phrase "... first modern American IPA brewed after prohibition...". When does "modern" era start? If it's the post-Repeal era, then it's redundant. If it's 50 years later when Liberty Ale hit the market, then why mention "after prohibition" at all?

Not many by then (when the US brewery total was down to double digits) - but they all had existed in other contemporary US breweries of that period.

(From memory- don't have access to my library right now)

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Open fermentation - Falstaff was doing it for Ballantine Ale, I believe Schmidt of Phila. was still open fermenting some of it ales, as well.​

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Dry hopping - Again, Ballantine Ale was still dry-hopped, Ortlieb was dry-hopping Neuweiler Ale and other US ales were probably dry hopped, too.​

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Whole hops- Many brewers hadn't converted to pellets by the 1970's.​

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Bunging- Many US beers were still carbonated by kraeusening- Heileman, Genesee, F. X. Matt all advertised as much.​

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Single hops- As noted above, recipes aren't available for most US beers, but given the very few varieties of hops available in the US at the time, I gotta figure many single hopped beers existed.​

But if that's the claim -"We are the first brewery to ____ since the last one did it..." - it's kinda weak. It's as if they're defining "modern" simply as when Anchor first did it. Anchor makes a similar claim in a video about US porters, IIRC, and there were probably 100's of US post-Repeal porters.

Look, I have the utmost respect for Maytag's Anchor. But that does not give the current owners a pass when it comes to factual claims.

 

Well it is certainly worth noting how much of the discussion of Anchor on BA is strictly over marketing copy, and hardly ever "is my bottle of such-and-such infected."

 

Sounds like you don't like the current owners. I hope they don't ruin the beer.
Thanks for the interview article. It was a great read. Now I have to get some work done. Cheers.

 

I don't like untruths. As you noted in another post above, they're particularly popular in beer marketing but I just never built up a resistance to them. (Imagine how hard that was in the pre-internet age ).

 

Well they make good beer and really at the end of the day that's what I care about, the brewers and the beer not the marketing department. That being said I agree their claims are overstated

 

I am determined to find my sellsheets from 10+ years ago that make this very same claim. The brewery was calling it an AIPA, as was the BJCP, LONG before the current owners. While your information is always enlightening and factually brilliant, to attribute this "story" to the new guys is false. In fact the marketing copy regarding being the first IPA, etc etc is almost word for word what it said years back.
I shall return after I complete some phone calls and some rummaging...

 

Again, I'm not really arguing one way or the other whether LA is or isn't an IPA, AIPA, etc., only pointing out that it's not the case that the brewery or Maytag has always called it one. To me, the "beer style" arguments, especially once it's down to sub-styles like AIPA, UKIPA, WCIPA are of little interest and close to '"angels dancing on the head of a pin" territory - whatever the brewer calls it is fine by me. And I see the styles as blending together around the edges, not divided by a definite line. And in this case, the quotes I've noted appear as if Maytag agrees with a less-than-strict attitude about beer styles (after all he originally brewed a bottom fermented Porter and then a top fermented Bock).

Yeah, good point - that may be. I'm attributing it to the new owners only because of the recent revamp of the website during their ownership, where I first noticed those many "first" claims (the initial one I recall was that Porter video). I've checked my old Anchor material and I can find only the claim of "America's original craft-brewed Ale since 1975" in a sheet that appears to be from the mid-'90's (no "Small Beer" yet, the "Summer Beer" still called "Anchor Wheat").

I suppose it'd be a cop-out to point out that "Well, it's their company now and they maintain these falsehoods, or at least, confusing claims "

 

I'm immune to all the marketing nonsense, but IMO Liberty Ale & Anchor Porter are world-class beers which speak for themselves.

 

It's gooooood.

 

Exactly. Maybe Yuenglings made something they called a Porter when Anchor first introduced theirs, but my guess is that it was just the regular Yuenglings with dark caramel food coloring in it. Anchor's Porter was the first good one, and it's still available, and that is all that matters.