Ever have a great Dark saison?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by azorie, Aug 23, 2014.

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  1. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Some times my selection is underwhelming here, but, yeah, as a rule that's how I roll as well...
     
    #41 russpowell, Aug 24, 2014
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  2. beerturtle

    beerturtle Devotee (353) Dec 24, 2005 Pennsylvania

    I'm confused by saison threads a lot. A number of BAs will say "this doesn't taste like a saison" or "this isn't what a saison should be". Why can't a saison be dark? Why can't it taste like z, rather than x or y? Aren't saisons supposed to be rustic, farmhouse-type beers that, IMO, could have had any number of variants based on whatever the brewer had lying around and use local wild or nonwild yeasts that would give specific flavor profiles?

    Also this.
     
    #42 beerturtle, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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  3. CavemanRamblin

    CavemanRamblin Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2014 North Carolina

    I could still taste the hops in the one I had, but the brett was most definitely the most prominent thing going on. To say it was funky would be an understatement. When I popped it open my wife could smell it from across the room.
     
    #43 CavemanRamblin, Aug 24, 2014
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  4. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    The only Dark Saison I've ever had is Lavery Brewing's Death or Glory. I didn't care for it at all but if you enjoy sweet beers with a lot of chocolate you may very well enjoy it.
     
    #44 dennis3951, Aug 24, 2014
  5. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    yes and it sounds like you maybe you have read this book:
    Farmhouse ales, culture and craftsmanship in the Belgian Tradition. ?
    I been reading it allot lately. why well I am still planing my Saison Home brew.

    If you read the book you know the answer. This is one of those questions to where you have to ask do I want to make a beer that is true to its roots, or experiment. While I am no big fan of BJCP, I think for the modern version (1980 and on) the color range they have is correct. Most dark saison seem to be a cross of a brown beer and maybe some kind of belgian yeast.

    So is it possible the Belgians brewed a dark Saison, well sure.Anything is possible. and of course any brewer in America can brew anything they want and call it a dark saison, but to me if it does not have the dupont signature or a similar slant of others in the BJCP list its just not a traditional Saison.

    But in my experience, and my travels and drinking old Bier de garde and Saison in that region (in the 1970's and onward), nope it was never done. YMMV and its just my experience. I know Saison silly has a dark one and its terrible IMHO.
     
    #45 azorie, Aug 24, 2014
  6. BMBCLT

    BMBCLT Grand Pooh-Bah (3,427) May 9, 2014 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Stillwater A Saison Darkly
     
    #46 BMBCLT, Aug 24, 2014
  7. thood6

    thood6 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2012 Louisiana

    The CCB Auld Alliance is a Wee Heavy made with Saison yeast. It was freaking awesome. Just the riight balance of Scotch Ale sweetness.
     
    #47 thood6, Aug 24, 2014
  8. DWheeler379

    DWheeler379 Zealot (747) Jun 15, 2012 Colorado

    Fonta Flora in Morganton, NC had a Persimmon Dark Saison that was delicious! Mystery Brewing in Hillsborough, NC had one that was decent that they bottled. Saison's can be dark - it's a broad style historically. Not everything has to be like Saison Dupont.
     
    #48 DWheeler379, Aug 24, 2014
  9. LehighAce06

    LehighAce06 Pooh-Bah (2,240) Jul 31, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes, you're exactly right about the saison 'style', it really is a bit of a catch-all. That said, there are, from what I can tell, about 3 different major subtypes of 'prototypical' saison; the DuPont version, American saison, and the brett fermented saison, and if it doesn't fall rather neatly into one of those 3, people will react the way you mention (note: none of those three are dark). A couple other BAs and I had a pretty interesting discussion on exactly this topic in another thread a couple weeks back, I'll see if I can find it and like it to you.

    edit: looks like @azorie already chimed in to your post, and IIRC he was one of the folks I'm referring to. Very knowledgeable guy.

    edit: found it: http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/if-you-dont-like-beer-then-you-dont-like-style.199866/
     
    #49 LehighAce06, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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  10. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,191) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Man I totally forgot about Funky Galaxy, Prairie makes great saisons love em...
     
    #50 Smakawhat, Aug 24, 2014
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  11. Moxie_Brown

    Moxie_Brown Initiate (0) Oct 25, 2012 Ohio

    I'm a big fan of Rockmill's Saison Noir. I wouldn't it's 100% to style but what is, especially when we are talking "dark saison."
     
    #51 Moxie_Brown, Aug 24, 2014
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  12. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    ouch chimed in sounds bad. lol oh well its what I do. still take it with a grain of salt, its just 1 persons 2 cents. The book had facts, I just wanted folks opinion of a great dark saison. I also knew it would be made in the USA.

    There is a interesting book about Northern France
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1905.tb04668.x/pdf

    It talks about them boiling the wort for hours. I am sure there is some expert on this somewhere. The bottom line to me is I love to taste a great dark saison, but one that fits the modern version of the "standard". One could add a ton of sugar to get the color darker but I think this would change the beer.

    So yes there is no true style, but as I said above in this case BJCP narrowed it down to something I happen to like. Now is that accurate, well no its not really. For 1 the old Saison were now where near as strong as they are now. we only know from about 1900. according to that book farmhouse ales. the rest is lost. mainly because nothing was written down and saved in some central place.

    To me and my experience both types of farmhouse ales are examples of beer made by the folks for those little regions, some biere de garde are like a saison and some are not. Some saison are near gueuze like. its all over but the basics are close enough in modern times. in 1900 I bet we get 3 or 6 "styles". low abv Saison (original beer), spiced ones. Grisette, strong ones, etc.

    So me I know what I like and what I expereinced, but your right this "style" is subject to guess work.
     
    #52 azorie, Aug 24, 2014
  13. hophead_87

    hophead_87 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2014 Virginia

    I liked Ithaca's Anniversary Sixteen. Nice honey notes and some good Belgian yeast flavors. Having said that, it's a little heavier than what one would expect from a saison IMO.
     
    #53 hophead_87, Aug 24, 2014
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  14. Danny1217

    Danny1217 Initiate (0) Jul 15, 2011 Florida

    I had some Brackish from SARA yesterday. It was awesome.
     
    #54 Danny1217, Aug 24, 2014
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  15. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I take you must have visited the place? or traded for it? I don't not see that placed on seekabrew even. I am reading their web site...I passed by there before they existed many times....
     
    #55 azorie, Aug 24, 2014
  16. Danny1217

    Danny1217 Initiate (0) Jul 15, 2011 Florida

    Some guy got a bottle and gave me a small pour of it at a local beer event. It was just a small taste of the beer but I can definitely say I've had a good dark farmhouse saison.

    Also, Bam Noire is an obvious one that isn't too hard to get.
     
    #56 Danny1217, Aug 24, 2014
  17. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    so not porter like at all? any brett?

    maybe I am looking in wrong place but its not listed on their web site anymore. old one off?
     
    #57 azorie, Aug 24, 2014
  18. orcrist_cleaver

    orcrist_cleaver Initiate (0) May 3, 2014 New York
    Trader

    Just had really good one from them the other day. A dark dame of a saison that went by the name Demiana. Lots of raisin.

    Stillwater also produces nice dark saisons
     
    #58 orcrist_cleaver, Aug 24, 2014
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  19. LehighAce06

    LehighAce06 Pooh-Bah (2,240) Jul 31, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I didn't at all mean "chimed in" negatively, I only meant that you beat me to joining the conversation.

    by the way, how would adding a ton of sugar darken the color? I understand how a multi-hour long boil would, but not the addition of extra sugar. Thanks in advance for some info!
     
    #59 LehighAce06, Aug 24, 2014
  20. Danny1217

    Danny1217 Initiate (0) Jul 15, 2011 Florida

    Idk about their website. It's listed here. Lots of brett some sourness.
     
    #60 Danny1217, Aug 25, 2014
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