Bias for US Beer?

I buy local...simple.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

Their own 2009 Annual Report says "1988"

(so, more than a decade after the founding of New Albion, the acknowledged first new "craft" brewery in the US) - before that Boston Beer exclusively contract-brewed at Pittsburgh (Iron City) Brewing Co.

I did not list any cities with early craft breweries that came after BBC (nor did I mention another contract-brewer, "Pete's Brewing Co.") As for "long gone " - how does that relate to your claim of craft beer being "essentially born in Boston "? Because New Albion and many other early craft brewers closed does not erase their history or importance.

Current breweries which began before the opening of BBC's Jamaica Plain facility include SN, Boulder, Bell's, Summit, Sprecher, Redhook, Widmer, Geary's, Abita and the fore-runners of companies like Pyramid and BridgePort. Probably a few others from 1987 and early 1988.

 

Really well said, my thoughts on the subject exactly.

A saison needs to be substantial and refreshing, I was taught, and is usually a beer that has bugs because originally that is how it was done, on farmhouses, with "simple" brewing that created a plethora of different flavors in a warm fermentation. When a beer like Flora or Le Sarrasin can be refreshing, and substantial, delicious, complex, and balanced perfectly between full attenuation, a bit of sweet, and all the tart and funk one expects, I call it world class because it hits the high water mark of every characteristic a saison should have and and fine beer lovers enjoy, and leaves one believing a finer product likely is impossible to create.

 

I appreciate this reply. It really helped me consider the point @herrburgess, @AlcahueteJ, and others have been making in this thread. Your Chicago pizza analogy brought to mind Mexican food, of which I know a good bit, and my disappointment at finding examples in other parts of the country -- examples lauded by locals -- to be completely lacking. So it must be with German (and other countries') beer for the folks who have been to the source.

That said, I also considered what @LambicPentameter noted about saisons, that perhaps styles are more pliable than some here would allow. If you're hung up on a lager having to taste exactly so -- in the same way I felt about Mexican food -- IPLs are probably a rather alarming and maddening thing. On the other hand, even though the tacos I've had elsewhere weren't like the street tacos I grew up on, I'd be lying to say they weren't sometimes tasty in their own way. I'm suggesting the two can peaceably coexist, I suppose. Hopped out IPLs, or especially toasted marzens, might have a place in the world, though I'm sympathetic to some folks' desire to see American breweries attempt to make a traditional style, well, traditionally.

Where it goes off the rails, though, is when we try to rank and evaluate examples side by side, as we do here on BA. Then, the hoppy lagers and pilsners of America, which many US folks gravitate toward for a variety of reasons (exposure/sensitization to hoppier ales, never having the opportunity to travel abroad and try examples at the source, etc.) suddenly start to "outscore" the originals back in Europe. I understand the indignation of those who have tasted the originals as they were intended, as I would my own indignation if the tacos I had in the American South were suddenly hailed as the pillars of the style.

The solution, I suppose, is simply to allow that American examples of certain styles, though perhaps inauthentic, are still capable of being delicious. Conversely, lovers of those American examples would do well to try the freshest European examples to make sure they understand -- as best they can within the limitations of shipping, international travel availability, etc. - the bases from which their favored brews may have come. And in doing so, they may find that, in addition to their American examples, they like the "different" flavors these originals offer.

 

Definitely 1985. I first drank it, in CT, in 1986. My first craft beer ever. Consumed at a tailgate at a UConn-Yale football game in New Haven. I say consumed, but I think I poured most of it out. I was talking about the modern craft beer industry being "essentially born" with BBC. Beer is nothing new. By 1988 BBC was already at 36,000 barrels, but that is the date for the JP brewery. Anyway, this is far OT at this point.

 

Discussing whether US > other countries is off topic but instructive because it illustrates the homerism at issue...

But really, how did the original debate go on this long? This is an American site. And beer fans are always going to explore all the good stuff close at hand. It would be strange if it were otherwise.

Just chiming in on some of the side questions... import prices are obviously a factor but maybe in more ways than we realize. I suspect that the US craft market is priced against those imports. It's like what retailers call anchoring -- put a high-end model on the floor and the mid-range version next to it seems reasonable at any appreciably different price. (I'm not saying this is done consciously, I suspect market forces.)

Freshness matters for, I'm guessing offhand, the majority of styles. Another reason to go local. Conversely, those styles that travel have an outsized influences on our tastes -- the reason that the big, bottle-conditioned Belgians (plus of course the gueuzes) do great in the export market, whereas you practically have to be in the hometown of some great German beers to see why they even bother. I imagine all this feeds into perceptions of country A vs. B.

Of course the export market is at best a stand-in, sometimes a substitute for, what's considered the real thing back home. There are just so many worthwhile and even fantastic beers to stumble across here that don't even get listed this site. And there are some notorious cases of brews that splashed in the US with no footprint at home. I don't know how much that matters.

It was asked by a few people whether there's similar rating bias in other markets. Obviously. It was well observed that you won't see Americans on the Belgian beer board. In fact, I'd say the home bias can be a good bit higher in some countries. Not to overplay a simple anecdote, but I have a friend who is a professional brewer in Germany and, essentially, has zero use for any imports or styles outside his tradition. But it varies. Some other European markets are more like the US of the recent past, where the fans extol the message, hey, we make some pretty good stuff if you know where to look. In some other markets (my impression of the UK and my observations of Belgium), the committed geeks can all name some American beers that they love. A difference is that the Brits can find it in country, whereas the Belgians had it abroad or someone brought them something.

 

A very well stated post.

I also happen to think Phil Markowski’s quote was well stated too: “Americans are the most creative brewers in the world and I believe that is a result of our having more freedom, freedom from having to uphold old established traditions. We can still respect established styles and traditions but that is no reason hold back from creating new ones.”

Cheers!

 

Yes, I covered that - "...before that Boston Beer exclusively contract-brewed at Pittsburgh (Iron City) Brewing Co."

And US brewing industry historians disagree - giving the nod to Maytag's purchase of Anchor in the 1960s and then the opening of New Albion in 1976. The "craft era" in the US began a good decade before Jim Koch's Samuel Adams Boston Lager came along.

 

I personally have no problem with "American" versions of traditional styles tasting different than the originals -- and even find many of them to be tasty beers (for what they are, but not for what they are not). Where I do have a big problem is with American brewers selling me something (at often fairly high prices) they explicitly claim as being German/Czech, when it bears very, very little relation to the original. It's really not difficult to understand.

 

I understand your frustration, in the same way I understand my own when someone sells me Mexican food that isn't very Mexican. It feels like - and correct me if I'm wrong here - you're pretty darn frustrated, though, and that part I don't understand. A lot of people like inauthentic Mexican food. I (generally) don't. I have a good chuckle at the people who do and merrily go on my way, making sure to stop at the taqueria on the way home. I guess I'm just saying why get so flustered by it? When you come across the rare brewer that makes a good example, buy it up! When you don't, make a note of it and never return. Seems like a simple solution.

BTW, fairly high prices? Do you have some examples? I generally find American craft beer to be pretty darn affordable.

 

I guess my frustration is with shelling out $11 a six-pack and then -- yet again -- getting something that tastes more like a (usually mediocre) APA/IPA than a German lager (especially when I think back to how a half-liter bottle of Augustiner Helles costs around $0.50 at any supermarket or gas station in Munich). As to why I don't just give up? Good question. Since I first saw the commercial when I was 5, I've tried around 10 times -- approximately every 4 years -- to like Cream of Wheat. Just a quirk, I guess....

EDIT: And as I mentioned in an earlier post, it frustrates me when those who have explored beer the least beyond their own borders loudly (and extremely persistently) tout U.S. examples are equivalent to -- or even better than -- the originals they have never consumed at the source. If it were just your average macro drinker making such ridiculous claims, it wouldn't bug me as much; but these folks should really know better.

 

Hahaha, it's just not as good as regular oatmeal, brother -- give it up! Also, come over to the dark side of single bottle sales -- save yourself the cash!

 

See, I'm always expecting it to taste like grits....

 

I see what you did there.

 

Oh dear, this is simply not the case. The 'Europe' you mentioned is actually entirely Belgian (who are incredible at what they do and produce, as a country, many of my favourite beers); the fact is there is such a great amount of diversity combined with a lengthy history that gives European breweries a completely different position. To say that 'Europe' somehow 'pales in comparison' to the United States is just not true.

 

Very well said. Totally agree.

I have no issue with, say, Jacks Abby and their IPLs. I find them absolutely delicious. And that's what counts right?

What I have a problem with is someone saying that Jacks Abby makes the best lagers in the worlds, that until they tried them they'd never tasted a good example because the ones they'd tried "just weren't hoppy or complex enough", and that they did a side by side with [insert generic german lager that's been collecting dust on the shelves for a good year], and Jacks Abby blew it out the water.

Just be open-minded people!

 

Well said.

Also reminds me of those who sincerely prefer the pub culture in the U.S. to that of the European countries with beer reputations, yet have not been to the latter.

 

Pretty limited view of my post.

OP referring to DIPAs and Imperial stouts and hard to argue anyone does those better than US.

I don't think many (really any) in USA have been able to replicated the subtleties of a Roch 10 or Westmalle Tripel--doesn't mean there aren't good imitators--just really love those two.

There are a lot of really fantastic American breweries and my state is just one example of may cranking out just awesome stuff. Love a good Wicked Weed sour.

Lighten up.

 

My Bias is for beers (American or Global) that I can get off the shelf, so I don't have to goto the ISO:FT forums.