Barleywine stuck at 1.060 ... help please??

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by janky, Aug 30, 2014.

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  1. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    Brewed a massive barleywine about 3 weeks ago.
    SG 1.144
    Target FG: 1.030 or in the 1.02x range.

    Oxygenated wort by using sanitized paint stirrer on a drill and stirring up for a good 30 seconds or so (massive cloud of foam)
    Pitched a 2L starter of SD Super and a vial of London Ale around 70 F.

    Fermentation has been stuck at 1.060 for over a week now.
    I tried stirring it up again to oxygenate it, but no luck.

    Help?
    Ideas?
    Suggestions?
     
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Well, if you indeed added O2 at this juncture all you did was oxidize the beer. A beer that big needed pure O2, and probably a 2nd dose of O2 at 24hrs or so, a healthy yeast starter, yeast nutrient, good brewing practices, and a little luck. Your yeast starter if you only used a single vial would have needed to be stepped, and much larger than 2L for one of the steps.

    What did you mash at, what was your grain-bill, and why did you co-pitch?
     
    #2 JohnSnowNW, Aug 30, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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  3. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    JohnSnowNW's analysis leaning toward a tasty pancake syrup at best or maybe 'le drain pour?'

    Prognosis aint't good if you're stuck at 1060.
     
    #3 HerbMeowing, Aug 30, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  4. basscram

    basscram Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2006 Maine

    try some of it! see if it tastes good as a last resort. heck it may not hit your fg but it may taste damn good. For the record, I've never done a barleywine, Strongest beer I have done is a quad and a bdsa. If its stuck it must be done. Like I said try it out. Other info like what John suggested would help too. Herb is hungry and is in the mood for pancakes right now but tis true, if its stuck its probably tasty. not sure about the syrupy part. hahahah!
     
  5. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    I couldn't get the proper regulator in time to do an O2 dose straight from a tank. Best I could do was the stirring.
    I did throw yeast nutrient/energizer in at 15 min left in the boil.
    I don't know how to make anything larger than 2L. I definitely do not have the equipment for that... I'm just using 64 oz growlers and a 1L flask.

    Mash, that's tough to explain -- started 149, did some runnings into the boil kettle, heated to 190 and tossed back over the mash. Did that in 20 min intervals, gradually stepping up the temp to 156, where I stopped and let the mash sit for an hour.
    Grain bill -- a lot. I don't have my notebook right in front of me - if this is vital to answering the stuck ferm question, I can give more info tomorrow when I have access.
    Co-pitch was because I doubted the capability of just the SD Super starter, and figured the extra wouldn't hurt (I was right, as it obviously didn't even go past 1.060)

    Can I just pitch another vial at this point?

    Drain pour will not happen. That's not an option.

    Sample was definitely sweet, and very boozy. I'd like to get a little more of the cloying sweet out, and hit (at the least) 1.030.
    Ideas on how to do this?
     
  6. vrbulldog22

    vrbulldog22 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Ohio

    You could always blend it with a smaller beer, getting rid of the sweetness & hitting your gravity - but also losing the style & the booze.

    Do it with an IPA & call it an american barleywine? :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  7. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    Assuming it is a 5 gals batch you just need to add 1 or 2 rehydrated packs of Nottingham yeast, your beer is going to be fine.
    Good luck Sir !
     
  8. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I usually try to stay positive but you are fucked. I know this from experience. No amount or strain of yeast is going to fix this.

    You can bottle it then shart every time you drink one or blend. Brew up a OG100 and use 3711 to get full attenuation and the ABV. I sharted last time this happened to me.

    Good luck!
     
  9. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    You're already at around 11% abv, I don't think that there is much that can be done. If you're willing to wait a couple of years, maybe pitch a big healthy starter of Brett C. 3711 is also an option, but with the amount of alcohol you'll be dealing with, I don't know that any yeast would do much.
     
  10. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I was asking about the grain-bill to see where your sugars were coming from, because many people use crystal to varying degrees in Barleywine which is obviously going to affect your FG. As would sugars like dextrose, cane, table, etc... Just seemed that your original FG numbers were a bit optimistic.

    Co-pitching is generally not advised, unless they are known to work well together. A vial of London Ale is not one I would pitch with a starter SD Super, as London Ale has a low attenuation factor and it was going to be completely out performed, especially with only pitching the one vial.

    You really have to pitch a healthy starter with beers like this, and with your set-up you definitely would have needed to do a stepped starter, or made a starter with several vials. Not pitching enough yeast had probably the greatest impact on your stuck fermentation.

    I can't answer to whether pitching more yeast will help at this point, as I've never pitched into that amount of alcohol.
     
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  11. janky

    janky Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2013 Washington

    Thanks John.
    Grain bill was composed of massive amounts of maris otter, 1# Special B, C120, and a tiny bit of honey malt + a little DME during the boil.
    I appreciate the advice; next time I do a big beer I will step up a starter into a few vials (or growlers) and probably not bother with a co-pitch.

    Someone told me that using champagne yeast at this point would work. Although, I'm a bit concerned about that altering the taste in weird ways.
    It actually doesn't taste terrible right now -- its just too sweet.

    I also read an article that mentioned yeast releasing some sort of "stress proteins" before they die out, so if those are suspended in the beer, when you pitch another vial the new yeast will recognize the stress proteins and won't do anything. Supposedly you have to go through a cold crash + some other removal methods to get the beer cleared of them, and then you could repitch?

    I know everyone is quick to just say "you're screwed" and "dump it", but I spent a lot of money and an 8 hour brew day making this beer. I'm not giving up on it.
     
  12. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Not a problem. I wish I could help with what to do at this point, but it's just a little out of my element.

    That said, it is my understanding that champagne yeast won't be able to consume maltotriose, which I suspect is a large proportion of your residual sugars. There is also the issue with champagne yeast that once you pitch it, you won't be able to pitch any other yeast because it produces a toxic protein that will kill any other yeast. I am not certain that ALL champagne yeast are killers, however.
     
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  13. vrbulldog22

    vrbulldog22 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Ohio

    There's a huge difference between saying "you can't realistically hit your FG target in this scenario" and "dump it." Worst case scenario, you enjoy your brew as-is, which you said isn't bad. No need to dump it.
     
  14. IKR

    IKR Maven (1,490) May 25, 2010 California
    Trader

    I had a big stout that got stuck at roughly the same gravity (1.069). It started at 1.146 plus had an additional 1lb of of candi sugar added during fermentation. Try pitching a decent starter (on stir plate) of White Labs 099 (high gravity yeast). Try to pitch it right after high krausen and decant off as much as possible. Mine got down to 1.019. Other than killing the residual sweetness it didn't alter the flavor profile. Best of luck whatever you decide.
     
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  15. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I'm with those who said, "pitch more yeast"...next time make a session beer a week before, pitch the whole cake and let the party begin (with blowoff and plenty of headspace)
     
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  16. dbrese

    dbrese Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2011 Vermont

    Your beer is only at 55% attenuation, so either you didn't get very good conversion during the mash or your yeast has reached its alcohol tolerance, which could be what is going to cause more problems if you pitch another yeast to finish the fermentation. As far as getting the gravity down to 1.030-ish, consider that Three Floyd's Dark Lord finishes very high, too, but is still a high ABV imperial stout. You may need to expect less attenuation and accept whatever a more alcohol tolerant yeast will give you. Champagne yeast won't do much if you pitch at this point, not would any other wine yeast. You may want to consider the method described in this blog post from themadfermentationist.com: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2007/11/courage-russian-imperial-stout.html

    Good luck!
     
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  17. petree

    petree Initiate (0) Jun 14, 2012 California

    Well, you denatured your enzymes by running off the thin part of the mash where most of the enzymes reside and heating it well beyond 160.This is why decoctions are done with the thick part of the mash. You can add as much Saccharomyces and oxygen as you want and it's not going to attenuate any more. If dumping is not acceptable your only other path is going to be adding a Brettanomyces strain. Good luck!
     
  18. ThomP

    ThomP Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Texas

    Brew a very dry beer, use some honey or sugar, then Blend the beers together to achieve the happy balance you want in your BW.
     
  19. Jmitchell3

    Jmitchell3 Initiate (0) Apr 2, 2013 Arizona

    Do what IkR recommended and see if that doesn't drop it a few more degrees. Make as large a starter as you can....
     
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  20. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    If it were my brew...I'd pitch another vial of the same yeast after making a starter.

    I've had a barley wine crap out too soon (1.110 OG stopped @ 1.036; target FG 1.022)
    Instead of pitching another vial...I harvested the yeast...made a starter...and re-pitched the slurry.
    FG 1.022 and quite tasty months later.
     
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