Fernseh-Pils-a-thon 2013

"Bereinigt um Inflation und Mehrwertsteuer haben sich die Preise in nur zwei Jahrzehnten halbiert."

"Adjusted for inflation and VAT , prices have halved in just two decades." That is status quo and probably that largest hurdle for craft beer, Made in Germany or elsewhere.

 

@JackHorzempa already posted this list in a separate thread, to which I responded with the top ten selling beers in the US. As I said in that thread, each country has its beer wastelands, but the two lists should illustrate how far the US still has to go.

 

Yes, Jack kindly cited my original post when he copied/pasted the list into the general forum. Ok, maybe American Fernsehbiere are undrinkable in my book, but the above listed suspects, ie the German versions, keep getting closer and closer that their American ideal. Oettinger and Padeborner are almost there in undrinkability!

 

Bitburger is number two. I had a Bitburger a few weeks ago with 2 months age on it, and it was delicious (not even close to my top pilsner, but far from undrinkable). There is a VAST difference between Bitburger and ANYTHING on the US top ten list, never mind number two (Coors Light).

Heck, we're so bad now, not even the "hefty" Budweiser can maintain it's number two spot.

 

Of the ones I've had, they're still a step above our big sellers and the lesser versions remind me a bit of the other big Euro beers like Heineken, Peroni, Carlsberg, Kronenbourg, etc.
I think the main difference between our big sellers and those usually comes down to hop notes. The big three over here just have no hop character at all. Even the all-malt "premium" Michelob just has nothing at all in that department. I'm not even a hophead and I like my pilsners on the southern end of things, but our macros are a whole other story.

 

In the other thread, the first sentence of my post was: “…U.S. "craft"-brewed German styles are easily on par with the originals.”

I bolded the part of “U.S. “craft”-brewed” since for some reason this did not stick with you.

I then went on to state in my post: “So, do US craft breweries make beers that are on par with the above list? I would say that many US craft breweries make German style beers that are much better than the above list.”

The comparison is between US craft brewed versions of German style beers and German brewed beers from popular (top selling) German breweries.

I have no idea why you are conflating that with US non-craft breweries like Anheuser-Busch.

Since you like to talk about Bitburger a lot, let’s specifically address that beer. I personally would not characterize Bitburger as being a bad beer but I am going to purchase US craft brewed Pilsners like Troegs Sunshine Pils, Stoudt’s Pils, Neshaminy Creek Trauger Pils, Sly Fox Pilsner, Trumer Pils, etc. over a beer like Bitburger any day of the week.

Cheers!

 

I apologize if you misunderstood my post(s). Both here, and in the other thread, I was simply using your list as a reference to compare to the two countries as a whole. I was not comparing US craft vs. the top selling German beers.

I only mention Bitburger because it's a beer on that list I've both had recently, and had somewhat fresh recently.

 

But I was comparing US craft brewed German style beer to top selling German beers.

If you want to start a new discussion topic, there is no need to reply to my post which had a different focus. Simply start your own post with no need to reply (or tag) me.

Cheers!

 

I apologize for tagging you in error. But now that I have started the conversation, what is your take on the difference between the two lists?

 

I am not a fan of the popular AAL beers (Bud Light, Coors Light, Budweiser, etc.) and generally not a fan of AAL beers in general. In the past I enjoyed drinking the Schlitz 1960s formula beer but I have not seen this beer in years. Some AAL and AAAL (American Amber Adjunct Lager) beers that I enjoy drinking from time to time are: Genny Bock, Yuengling Oktoberfest, Yuengling Lord Chesterfield Ale, Shiner Bock, etc.

As regards the top 10 list of Fernsehbiere that Tony posted I do not buy those beers ever; I am not a fan of those beers.

Cheers!

 

US craft brewed German style Pilseners are quite unlike anything made in Germany. They have a much higher viscosity through the use of specialty malts (in particular Caramel malts) and tend to be dry hopped. Samuel Adams Noble Pils and Victory´s Prima Pils are two good examples of this. Both are excellent beers, but the hop oil flavor is too intense for my taste. I find a good German Pilsener like Neumarkter Lammsbräu to be better balanced, but Domingo is right on: "Of the ones I've had, they're still a step above our big sellers and the lesser versions remind me a bit of the other big Euro beers like Heineken, Peroni, Carlsberg, Kronenbourg, etc.". This has been dubbed "the international taste" in Germany and is apparently the goal of many major German brewers. Let´s hope that German bakers do not start making Wonder bread.

 

Off topic, but if someone can find me a U.S. bakery that makes traditional German bread as good as the originals, please point the way. (A nice Alpine yogurt that tastes worth a darn would be very welcome, too.)

EDIT: Actually, we have Guglhupf in Durham, NC, which is pretty good. Yogurt is more of a problem.

 

I don't know about as good, but this place does a pretty darn good job. The founder/owner/baker is from Germany.

You didn't specify where in the US.

 

“They have a much higher viscosity through the use of specialty malts (in particular Caramel malts) and tend to be dry hopped.” That is a generalization which is not an accurate depiction of US craft brewed German Pilsners. For example Troegs Sunshine Pils:

“Tröegs Sunshine Pils®

Alcohol by Volume: 4.5%

Hop Bitterness (IBUs): 45

Color (SRM): Straw / Golden

Availability: Seasonal (April - July)

Malts: Pilsner

Hops: Hersbrucker, Saaz

Yeast: Lager”

Troegs Sunshine Pils is solely brewed with Pilsner malt (zero specialty malts) and it is not dry hopped.

Other US craft brewed German Pilsners which also solely rely on base malts (no specialty malts) and do not dry hop: Trumer Pils, Stoudts Pils, Neshaminy Creek Trauger Pils, Sly Fox Pikeland Pils, and on and on.

You made specific mention of Victory Prima Pils. Victory does utilize a HOPNIK to add hops between the kettle and fermenter for Prima Pils but I am not aware that they dry hop this beer.

To think that Sam Adams and Victory Prima Pils are indicative of all of the US craft brewed versions of German Pilsners is myopic.

Cheers!

 

We buy the LaBrea multigrain from Costco, 2 loaves for $4.99 and it freezes well. Best we have found. Tastes great with the Schwarzwälder Schinken I just received in a care package and goes very well with Nutella.

 

To think that Sam Adams and Victory Prima Pils are indicative of all of the US craft brewed versions of German Pilsners is myopic.

To actually believe that any craft brewery would tell the truth about what ingredients they use in their beers is naive.

 

There certainly are plenty of breweries that proclaim their beers are "brewed with" or "brewed using" German malt/hops/etc....without telling you what other types of malt/hops/etc. they are brewed with or brewed using.

 

What has happened is that in the American micro/craft brewing sector there is this notion that a secret "recipe" is being used to create the beer. I can tell you as a brewing scientist with the equipment at my disposal there are not secrets. We can dissect any beer within minutes and tell you exactly how it was made. The websites claim one thing and we analyse the beers and ascertain something completely different. This is way off the topic, but it is interesting to note that you cannot buy a candy bar or a loaf of bread in the US without the ingredients being specified. With beer, this is not the case. I wonder why? Could it be that the big brewers do not want you to know and put a lot of money into it so that you will never find out?

 

Let alone that a claim of "Pilsner" malt doesn't mean the barley was imported or even malted as well as other varieties.

 

Interesting, lots of conspiracy theories being posted.

Cheers!