Counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad

i understand what you are saying, but this is all a series of "i don't believe" and "perhaps" and "it seems" statements with absolutely no evidence.

i don't see how you can take a documented case of falsified beer in trading and turn it into an "a ha! ebay is bad!" argument. it simply doesn't work.

here's how i see it:

1) there's no history of what trades have gone down on ba, at all. someone can post a "ft: nomad, iso: wales" and set up 10 different trades with 10 fake bottles. you'll never know what was traded or whom the bottles were traded to. there is no record. it's actually easier and faster to disseminate fake bottles through ba than through ebay (post too many for sale and you flood your own market since the sales are logged).
2) wales are rare enough that few people will have the chance to sit two bottles side by side and perform a comparison (this works as an argument for both trading and ebay falsification).
3) if you're "blackballed" on ba, you can start over and try again. look how many times fyrekrakker05 / urownnitemare / alldeybrewing (SAME GUY) hit ba over and over again.
4) the idea that anyone can be "blackballed" on ba with any sort of consensus is naive. worst case, you create a new account and ship first. hell, spin a convincing story about how you were banned for drunk posting a scumbag steve image, and people might not even question why a join date: today has a bottle of don quijote.
5) to sum up 1 and 2, it is easy to cheat in trades on ba. to sum up 3 and 4, there are no consequences to cheating in trades on ba. none.

again, you are fixating on ebay and being almost willfully obtuse about the more immediate danger. i think you have an agenda, and i suggest that you put it aside to accept some of the ugly truths here.

 

No - I honestly haven't. I doubt anyone would own up to it (or more importantly recognize it), if they did. Though it sounds like this particular bottle of JCN may have originated there.

I fully admit it is all conjecture. But, counterfeit goods and other types of fraud is a major problem that Ebay has been dealing with since day 1. That's a fact. And the environment is perfect for counterfeit craft beers - easily and cheaply made, sell for large amounts, difficult to tell the difference for the majority of buyers, big enough to be worthwhile but small enough to stay under the radar hobby, and ultimately it's not even a legal Ebay transaction, so the buyer has little recourse to complain.

 

In all fairness, we don't really even have that. We have two different JCN label types, an assertion that Cantillon says all the labels of JCN have rounded corners, and another assertion that the labels may have been applied by the retailer (as was discussed previously in the thread... label variation, especially when not directly applied the by the brewer, isn't sufficient to determine provenance. Maybe the retailer didn't get enough labels and printed a few more up later on). Until the bottle actually gets traced back to the source, we don't actually know for sure.

 

ok, fair enough.

a suspected case of falsified beer in trading

emphasis is really on "trading." if you're going to extrapolate anything from this, it's that trading is unsafe.

 

I have some fake Cantillon glasses you can drink your fake JCN in...

 

Looks like that free advert got his last two Blabaers sold. Now...who it be?

 

Back to the original intent of this thread...has anyone heard from the guys that made and labeled the bottles?

 

To further argue that it is easy to sell faked bottles of JCN on EBAY. You are not allowed to to sell alcohol on EBAY. In turn I would just need one batch of pictures that say came from the ebay listing quoted in this thread.

I could just send an Empty bottle and even if the buyer complains to Ebay there is nothing Ebay will do, as the deal is complicity for the bottle not the contents. Most people even quote ebays policy
(* By purchasing this item you agree to be 21 years or older. * Both the buyer and seller agree they are of the legal age to purchase alcohol at their shipping address. * The value of the item is in the collectible container, not its contents. The collectible container has not been opened and any incidental contents are not intended for consumption. * The item is not available at any retail outlet, and the container has a value that substantially exceeds the current retail price of the alcohol in the container. * The seller will take all appropriate steps to ensure that the buyer is of lawful age in the buyer and seller's jurisdiction (generally 21 years of age). * Buyers and sellers both ensure that the sale complies with all applicable laws and shipping regulations.

 

Except the terms clearly state the bottle must be unopened. If the buyer gets an empty bottle, the seller is clearly in violation and the buyer would have recourse.

 

All people quote the policy. It's mandatory to sell alcohol through this loophole.

I don't buy or sell on ebay, but there's no way you can list an unopened bottle, send an empty, and ebay will just overlook it.

 

understood, but as a loophole couldn't you cap an empty, technically it is unopened? Nothing states there must be liquid in the bottle. Or for that matter you could send a freaking bottle of water and it would live up to the letter or the policy.

 

Isn't there a way their money can be refunded with PayPal? (I honestly have no clue as I never use Ebay for anything)

 

Any altered collectible (even if it's restored) isn't going to have the same value as the original in mint condition, unaltered.

 

But how do you prove it has been altered, unless you drink it, which you are explicitly not supposed to do? More importantly, why would you even open it, if you purchased it for collectible purposes, and opening it ruins its collectible value?

It's a big grey area, for sure...

 

You can get into arbitration, but it's not that cut and dry.

 

Agreed that it's a gray area, but at least there is a chance of repercussions. Not arguing for buying on ebay - I've never done so and don't see it in my future. But I'd rather buy on ebay than trade with some of the shady characters on here.

 

I like how every single thread in this subforum somehow turns into an Ebay thread. I swear this site has some seriously unresolved Ebay issues.

 

+1 This thread is crap. It went off on a tangent. I'm not surprised.

 

Can anyone volunteer to create a spreadsheet of known Ebay sellers and BA/Ratebeer username? I know one: Adam Jackson.

 

It's actually very cut and dry. For such a big hater on ebay have you ever used it to buy or sell anything? Buyer's on ebay have a lot of power. If I complain that something I bought wasn't as described they take that shit seriously. It's the foundation of their business. If they can't protect their customers why would the customers come back.

This majority of this community doesn't like to see beer being bought and sold on ebay, we all know that. I just don't understand your point of view being so one sided. Did you get burned on ebay?