Fernseh-Pils-a-thon 2013

Earlier in the thread, you said that you were a brewer in Wisconsin. Where's your lab and/or brewery located?

 

Interesting article on a presentation by Professor Ludwig Narziss to the Bundes Österreichischer Braumeister und Brauereitechniker. http://www.biertaeglich.eu/50-jahre-biergeschmack-deutschland.html

Lots of points that we have touched on throughout the years (decrease in IBUs), but also a much more extensive and exhaustive look at the issues that have developed in German brewing over the past 50 years. A few examples:

1. It's not (just) the case that IBUs have dropped over the past 25-30 (actually 50) years; rather OGs have dropped as well (so that while German beer has become less flavorful/more monolithic, it often still maintains a sort of "balance").

2. Some breweries have begun using inferior, foreign malt, including 6-row

3. Decoctions have been all but abandoned and/or boils have become less vigorous, leading to poorer malt character/problems with DMS, etc. (Oettinger!)

He also proposes some solutions (including, but not limited to, experimenting with "American"-style hops) to right the ship.

All in all, some good stuff here. Worth a read (in German only).

 

Pretty much all of them use "foreign" malt these days. Folks at both Weyermann and Schlenkerla told me that they have to balance out/supplement local harvests with grain from abroad (mainly Scandanavia, according to Mattias Trum). Just the nature of...well...nature, that crop yields don't allow for bigger places/maltsters to source from a single area any more. Still, the 6-row graininess is a major difference IMO. I assume this is at the root of that particular Oettinger harshness.

 

No idea.

 

Makes you wonder why or how they export so much malt to U.S. breweries and home-brew stores.

 

They are running 24x7. During the brief period that I was at the main facility in Bamberg, at least 2 grain trucks arrived to drop off their grain for inspection and (later) malting. Weyermann also opened a new facility outside of town to handle increased demand. That said, their brand new logistics center, which is right across the street from their main "campus," is working at near capacity already, and -- as they told me during the tour -- when that is maxed out, there is zero physical space to expand. Good thing many U.S. commercial "craft" places skimp on the malt instead of going for the more expensive (but IMO well worth it) Weyermann products.

 

Sorry, wasn't singling out Weyermann, but thinking of all German malters.

But my point is more to; wouldn't you rather see brewers that respect their ingredients (know how to use/utilize it) taking advantage instead of "cutting" it with inferior barley?

 

Not if, for good and selfish reasons, I want more of the Weyermann barley for myself!

 

Shhhhh!

I would imagine that the margins are higher on product shipped to the US.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

I'm willing to accept the use in "craft" beers, as it does seem like there is -- and will remain -- a clear market distinction between "traditional" and "craft" in Germany. Now, if people start loading up my Keesmann pils with Mandarina hops...then I'm going to be pissed!

 

I've never had a Keesmann pils, but judging by reviews it doesn't need Mandarina hops, which is a good thing. But looking at this objectively, isn't dry hopping a pilsner the simplest way to add some sort of individual profile? As you and the article you posted say along with increasing OG and using quality malts, I think so, and many brewers will see it this way too. I hearken back to a discussion I had with a professional brewer, and he said, show me your pilsner and I'll tell you the recipe - 95% pilsner malt, maybe 5% Munich, 60 minute, 15 minute and (if you're lucky) a whirlpool addition - basta. My point is it's a hard style to differentiate from the masses, probably because 95% of folks can't identify any subtleties anyway.

Didn't we also have a video of the people drinking Warsteiner or Becks out of an Oettinger glass?

 

Sure, for a time.... But when did it come acceptable -- and even desirable -- to take the "simplest way" out? Isn't that precisely what the macros/conglomerates/Fernseh beers have been doing, just in the other direction (dumbing down instead of dumbing up)? Pretty soon that same person can tell you exactly what's in every dry-hopped pilsner that has flooded the market.

 

Those are some interesting observations by Professor Ludwig Narziss.

As regards “It's not (just) the case that IBUs have dropped over the past 25-30 (actually 50) years; rather OGs have dropped as well” we are fortunate to have BA @felsenpils participating in this thread. In his first post to this thread (see copied below) he astutely pointed how the combination of decreased hopping and decreased original gravity have resulted in German Pilsners that are a “reduction in quality”.

Cheers!

P.S. He also made specific mention of: “Aroma hops are completely missing from any Fernsehbier.”



“Very interesting thread. I am a German brewer and have worked in 6 German breweries including Rothaus. Yes, the beers have changed significantly in the past 20 years. In general, the Stammwürze (original gravity) and IBU (hop bitterness) continue to decrease. Not too long ago, a decent Pils had at least 12° Plato OG and 35 IBU´s. Compare that to today´s watery Pilsners with OG´s in the low 11´s or even high 10´s and IBU´s in the 20´s and the difference becomes clear. The reduction in the OG has a massive effect on the body of the beer, in its depth and complexity. When the OG is reduced, the IBU´s are also decreased to balance the reduced malt sweetness. If you start with a lower OG but still want to obtain around 5% alc. by volume, you must push the fermentation farther and reduce the residual sweetness resulting again in a thinner tasting beer. Aroma hops are completely missing from any Fernsehbier. The reason for these changes is quite clear: maximize profit by using less ingredients. Is this a reduction in quality? Absolutely. In any large brewery, the bean counters are in charge, not the brewmasters. That is the main reason why Das Reinheitsgebot is still so important. If the bean counters have their way and you do not have a RHG, then it is off to the races with adjuncts like high fructose corn syrup, rice extract, sugar cane, etc. Never believe that brewmasters around the world do not know how to brew great beer because they all do but are not allowed to. The art of brewing has been perfected and the equipment standardized. In Germany, the beers are being produced as cheaply as possible within the confines of the RHG. I remember very well Pilseners like König and Fürstenberg back in the 80´s and I cannot believe how much they have been degraded. We get the typical excuses from the big brewers: marketing to a younger crowd, appealing to women, adjusting to socio-economic factors. The truth is that they are making cheap beer and are hoping to get away with it as the generations shift and people like me are no longer around. Germany needs something like the English CAMRA before it is too late.”

 

There are various ways to "improve" or brew a decent pilsner, including ingredients, recipe, process and time - many/most brewers are on the same page on at least 2 of these points, 3 if you consider that shortening lager time. All I am saying is that there is little room to make a discernible product because many consumers cannot identify the fine points.

 

I actually see a lot of Weyermann bags in Denver, so I think at least some places care. In fact, I'd say I've probably seen more nationwide than ever in recent years. Even brewpub chains like Ram and Big River use a lot of Weyermann. I don't think most people use it exclusively (there are tons of Rahr bags are around, too) but it's not uncommon. I'm no expert, but I know some smaller operations really like Briess, too.

On the specific topic at hand - is there much of a grassroots back-to-basic CAMRA-like movement in Germany? Other than brewmasters and beer lovers, do most fernseh drinkers care or even notice that pilsners are decreasing in quality? I don't necessarily think it seems to be an issue with beers like Herren or Faessla, but then again, those are like their equivalent of a regional microbrew.

 

I disagree. Olde Mecklenburg made it clear from the beginning that they were going to take zero shortcuts on ingredients (no NA 2-row or 6-row, rather exclusively high-quality German malt, hops, and yeast); recipe (RHG all the way); and process (including decoction mashing, spunding for natural CO2, and longer lagering times) -- plus they have a commitment to always keep the beer cool/cold and as fresh as possible (by limiting distribution). They believed that consumers could recognize all these steps when taken together in the final product...and by all accounts they have. To dumb your beer up just because "consumers cannot identify the fine points" otherwise is, in my book, just as bad as dumbing your beer down.