Germany (and Holland) trip- 2014

Live in FFM, a.k.a. Frankfurt am Main. Also, to @mjtierney2 I agree, their dark beer is our normal go-to when shopping at REWE. But the 1.50€ for 1.5L deal is too good to pass up. I'm curious if anyone's interested in me reporting on a side-by-side taste test of the 2.

 

I vote Yes. I'm always interested in reading your reviews and write-ups.

 

Please do report. I always greatly enjoy reading your posts!

Cheers!

 

Sorry to hear about your loss, @boddhitree , things like that suck!

I also bought the huge Zlatopramen bottle in a Tegut some months ago. I hesitated, because the price was just suspiciously cheap and the 1.5l-plastic bottle is kind of a turnoff. But to my surprise, I also found it to be a very solid Bohemian Pilsner.
And Krusovice: this has always been a favourite of mine since I was in Prague for the first time about 14 years ago. In the last few years it has become widely available in many stores for a decent price.

 

While I tend to agree that Berlin isn't representative of German beer culture, it's the city I have the most experience with and would argue that it probably is at the fore of total beverage trends in Germany. While my exposure is limited, I've found that the majority of German "Craft" Breweries are taking a page out of the American Craft scene's book and going for bold, in your face flavor.

 

Jack, Berlin is not representative of Germany in many ways beyond beer, from my limited experience in Berlin. You need to go sometime. A comparison is London, which I have been told traveling around Britain, is not representative of England.

Tony, sorry for the theft of your backpack. That is something that has not happened to us, but all you have to do is drop your guard. At least it was just stuff that caused a major inconvenience, but something you can replace.

 

I find this hard to agree with. I haven't seen any Bavarian brewers following trends from Berlin. Rather if they are hopping on the "craft" bandwagon, they are taking their cues directly from places like the U.S. and the UK. Frequently they are mixing those influences with local ones, as well. Berlin is not only not representative of Germany at large, but frequently its influences are actively resisted in places like Bavaria and Baden-Wuerttemberg. That said, it certainly is the one city in Germany that most resembles U.S. "craft" in its brewing trends. Still, I think it's a mistake -- and honestly, pretty hubristic -- to say Berlin is "at the fore" just because it most closely resembles U.S. "craft" brewing.

 

Not exactly sure how it would be hubristic to say Berlin is at the fore of the German Craft beer scene. I have no affiliation with Berlin, I don't live there just have frequently visited. From what I have experienced, and read about, it has the most beer establishments that deviate from the old German beer hall model. It's the area that's been the quickest to adopt the American craft beer model: quality, albeit expensive, ingredients over quantity. I say it's at the fore because it's an urban center that has young, informed consumers with disposable income who don't mind paying 2-3x more for a quality product and it has the most establishments that are adopting this.

 

That statement is not hubristic at all. In fact -- if (and only if) we are using "craft" in the U.S. sense -- I completely agree with you. However, you originally said it is "at the fore of total beverage trends." I just think it's a bit arrogant to conflate the two. Also, brewers in Franconia, Bavaria, the Oberpfalz, Koeln, Dusseldorf, etc., etc. have been crafting excellent beers for centuries. Are they not craft brewers in your mind?

 

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this...

BirdFlu, can you elaborate on this? Do you think Bavarian brewers are not using quality ingredients?

 

Yes, indeed. A number of places even maintain their own maltings, perform decoction mashing, and lager for extended periods of time -- all quite expensive traditional procedures to maintain...even while producing large quantities like Augustiner does.

 

Sorry, for the lack of clarity: I use the term craft in the American Craft Beer sense; quality ingredients that tend to be more expensive than commodity-like ingredients. Again, no arrogance just stating what I've experienced. In the the town of Bonn, where I'm living now, if I want to buy an Ale Mania beer, I need to be prepared to pay 2-3x more for it than if I were to be buying a Bitburger Pils. I see this as a page out of the American Craft movement's book.

I place more emphasis on the price, not the quality. I found that German breweries are using more non-German grown hops and with that importing of product comes an increase in price. I don't think anybody will argue there's plenty of high quality German grown hops.

 

I think I see where you're coming from. Nevertheless, I have found the contrary all too often to be true: U.S. (and U.S.-style) "craft" brewers taking short cuts on ingredients, especially when it comes to brewing German styles (using NA two-row malts in place of and/or in conjunction with the more expensive German malts; more accessible bulk U.S.-style hops instead of the more expensive Noble varieties, etc.).

 

I can see this, but do you find it entirely required to use German ingredients (or English if making an English style) when making a German style? Part of creating an industry in an area is utilizing the ingredients of of your area, if you are able to do so without a compromise in quality then I see it as a win/win situation.

 

I think I see where you're coming from as well, but you are also sort of comparing apples to oranges (apples to pears in Germany, by the way). Try finding something like Kneitinger's Pils as a comparison to Bitburger and you'll see that it's not just American craft brewers who use quality ingredients. Faust Pils is also a good example - quality ingredients, quality beer, and still less than €0,80 per 500 ml bottle. If I remember correctly people on this forum have posted about a good beer store in Bonn - you may be able to find some Faust Pils there. Or go to Kneitinger's website and order yourself some of their pilsner to be shipped direct to your door (get their dunkel while you're at it).

 

In my own brewing -- which is exclusively traditional German styles and has been for the past 5 years or so -- as well as in my experience drinking German beers (here and in Germany at the source) for the past 25+ years, I have found that it is almost impossible to achieve the same quality as the better/best German beers without following most if not all of the traditional practices and utilizing the freshest German ingredients. You will hear from others that it is wholly possible, but I strongly disagree. (I'm a notorious perfectionist in such matters, so take that as you will.)

 

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely look for it.

 

Keesmann Pils -- as you pointed out in your blog entry -- is another excellent one!.

Keep up the good work with the blog...very enjoyable reading (esp. for a former Bamberg resident and nostomaniac like myself!)

 

Jeff, my personal beer drinking experiences in London were very similar to other British towns (Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh, etc.): cask ales in British pubs.

Cheers!