Bourbon County Stout: zero head, "5" for look?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Orca, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Dammit facts! Stop getting in the way of my argument.

    EDIT: No, you know what? Strike that - sort of. If the brewer employs techniques that inherently (more or less) affect a beer's appearance, in favor of awesome deliciousness, well, I'm not going to give him a break for that. The beer gets a higher score in taste and aroma, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give the beer a pass on appearance. There is no barrel-aged category where you can allow for these discrepancies, so you have to hold all beers to the same standard. Conversely, you could have a shitty-tasting beer sprinkled with gold pixie dust to make it sparkle brilliantly in the glass. I'll give it a 5 for appearance and a 2 for aroma/taste.
     
  2. markmiller

    markmiller Initiate (0) Dec 28, 2010 New York


    According to common sense...and also beer reviewing recommendations:

    appearance = 5%
    The first step. note the beer's colour, carbonation, head and its retention -- not the label or appearance of the bottle.
    [SOURCE]

    To each their own though, I'm not one to bash ones style. To me that is a typical case of judging a book by it's cover. Sure it can add to the "experience" but it would surely never detract from it. I also do not take the bottle into consideration when grading.
     
  3. MHowdy

    MHowdy Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2012 Michigan

    I'm just curious where it says anywhere that appearance means a thick layer of head, especially on a high abv stout? Which "beautiful imperial stouts" have you had that pour which a thick dense head? I can't think of many near this abv, which leads me to believe that you haven't had many great imperial stouts. Maybe the problem here isn't that others are rating wrong as it seems that you are suggesting, but that you have a misconception of what the appearance is supposed to look like. With that being said, however you score is up to you. But you shouldn't imply that others are rating incorrectly when the majority of beers that fit this style pour exactly how the beer that you rated did
     
  4. abecall98

    abecall98 Savant (1,234) Aug 11, 2007 California
    Trader

    Why do people care so Much how others review? Some like to do it purely for fun or for their own personal record, and BA provides an easy database to access your reviews easily.
     
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  5. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you'd read through my posts in this thread (not that I really expect you to), I mentioned a couple standouts in terms of both taste and appearance: Black Albert in particular (13%), but also Parabola (11%).

    Here's a list of imperial stouts I've reviewed in the past year, you can decide for yourself how many of them are "great." Almost all of them had some degree of head and retention though. Otherwise I probably never would have raised the question. But thanks for questioning whether I know what I'm talking about.

    AleSmith Brewing Company Speedway Stout
    Avery Brewing Company The Czar
    Bell's Brewery Expedition Stout
    Boulevard Brewing Company Dark Truth Stout
    Boulevard Brewing Company Imperial Stout
    Brasserie Dieu Du Ciel Péché Mortel (Imperial Stout Au Cafe)
    Brooklyn Brewery Black Ops
    Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout
    Central Waters Brewing Company Brewer's Reserve Bourbon Barrel Stout
    Central Waters Brewing Company Brewer's Reserve Bourbon Cherry Stout
    De Struise Brouwers Black Albert
    Deschutes Brewery The Abyss
    Dogfish Head Craft Brewery Miles Davis' Bitches Brew
    Firestone Walker Brewing Company Parabola
    Founders Brewing Company KBS (Kentucky Breakfast Stout)
    Founders Brewing Company Imperial Stout
    Founders Brewing Company Breakfast Stout
    Full Sail Brewery & Tasting Room & Pub Black Gold Imperial Stout - Bourbon Barrel Aged (Brewmaster Reserve)
    Goose Island Beer Company Bourbon County Brand Stout
    Great Divide Beer Company Barrel Aged Yeti
    Great Divide Beer Company Espresso Oak Aged Yeti
    Great Divide Beer Company Yeti Imperial Stout
    Great Divide Beer Company Oak Aged Yeti
    Great Divide Beer Company Chocolate Oak Aged Yeti
    Great Divide Beer Company Belgian Style Yeti
    Karl Strauss Brewing Company 22nd Anniversary Stout
    Lagunitas Brewing Company Imperial Stout
    Mikkeller Beer Geek Brunch Weasel
    Nectar Ales Black Xantus
    North Coast Brewing Company Old Rasputin
    Oakshire Brewing Hellshire II
    Oskar Blues Grill & Brewery Ten Fidy
    Port Brewing Company Old Viscosity
    Samuel Smith Old Brewery (Tadcaster) Imperial Stout
    Skookum Brewery Solitary Confinement
    Snoqualmie Falls Brewing Company Louis Quatorze Snoqualmie 14th Anniversary
    Southern Tier Brewing Company Choklat
    Southern Tier Brewing Company Mokah
    Southern Tier Brewing Company Jahva
    Southern Tier Brewing Company Crème Brûlée (Imperial Milk Stout)
    Stone Brewing Company Imperial Russian Stout
    Stone Brewing Company Belgo Anise Imperial Russian Stout
    Terrapin Beer Company W-n-B Coffee Oatmeal Imperial Stout
    Victory Brewing Company Storm King Stout
     
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  6. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not that I could if I wanted to. Which I don't. Even if I could. Which I can't.
     
  7. tewaris

    tewaris Initiate (0) Jul 14, 2009 Minnesota

    Took me a while to realize this. Reviewing is much more fun now... I do it like the top reviewer on BA and I couldn't care less.
     
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  8. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well, this is a discussion forum where people talk about beer-related issues that interest them. Personally, I care because if people are being unreasonably biased in their ratings, maybe those same ratings shouldn't be used to argue the inherent merits or relative quality of a given beer. Just spitballing here. End of the day, no, it doesn't really matter. I'll still like what I like and you'll like what you like, and that's OK.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  9. thecheapies

    thecheapies Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2009 Pennsylvania

    Appearance is a mere 5% of the total score. Rate it accordingly. Don't cheat. Not to mention, overrating appearance of BCBS or any beer won't do much to inflate the total score either.
     
  10. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Poor technique with the coffee could be a cause. Oil will kill head retention.
     
  11. BirdsandHops

    BirdsandHops Grand Pooh-Bah (3,061) Apr 14, 2008 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I think it's more of a matter of people not wanting to give a beer they really enjoyed a low mark in any category.

    Regarding appearance specifically, I more often come across beers that are beautiful but don't look very good than vice versa. When rating appearance, I try to take into account the style, glassware, and serving type. If it's served in a cylindrical glass on tap, I'm going to be a bit more lenient. I gave BCBS a 3 in appearance because it's a high abv bbal stout, so it's to be expected not to really have any head retention or lacing. When I'm judging something like a tripel or BSPA, though, I expect good lacing and retention. If I pour a tripel that has almost no head and no lacing, I'm going to give it a less than average score. I tend to rate appearance more by amount of head, retention, and lacing more than color or clarity.
     
  12. mychalg9

    mychalg9 Pooh-Bah (2,123) Apr 8, 2010 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    I rate the "appearance" based on how appetizing the beer looks to me. If it's a big stout and doesn't pour with a head, I realize that this is a fairly common characteristic of the style and it doesn't bother me.
     
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  13. ChanChan

    ChanChan Maven (1,341) Dec 12, 2009 California

    One of my favorite beers is Older Viscosity and as you probably know this beer gives as much head as a Nun, nonetheless, I think the color, the alcohol legs and the small rim deserved a 4.5. I guess when a beer is otherwise absolutely awesome, appearance takes a back seat.
     
    Providence likes this.
  14. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Haven't had that one yet, because of price. Finally pulled the trigger on a bottle @ Whole Foods "20% off all beer" sale about a month ago. I was surprised how much I liked Old Viscosity though, so I'm expecting good things.

    Maybe I need to revisit my expectations of what a big stout should look like, but having appearance only count 5% seems about right to me. Even if I give a beer a low score because of a disappointing appearance, overall score stays right about where it should be.
     
  15. Highbrow

    Highbrow Pooh-Bah (1,770) Jan 7, 2011 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    what i don't get is why so many people worry about other peoples personal opinions & assessments? it is after all their opinion of what they paid for & poured, and it's their review they took their time to compose. nobody stops the next person from having their own opinion & review. it seems a bit hypocritical to question the opinions of others based on ones own opinion / interpretation. jmho.
     
  16. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Isn't that what you just did?
    Not saying you're unique in this, I'm just saying that a good deal of the discussion on here is about questioning/challenging the opinions of others based on one's own opinion/interpretation. Why should discussion of reviewing protocol be any different?
     
    Errto likes this.
  17. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    i agree that reviews are worth talking about, but the place you're arguing from is your own bias. some people disagree that high ABV barrel aged beers need to have a big head.

    re: your argument that brewers should be docked appearance points because of barrel aging for flavor/aroma, do you think someone who doesn't like oak or whiskey flavors should knock BCBS in the aroma/flavor scores, or just overall?

    (i think it's up to the reviewer, but if you take "how good an X they brew when they try brewing an X," as the basis for appearance, smell, taste, mouthfeel, then i would think "barrel aged stout" goes in for X with BA stouts, not just the style listed. as such, appearance would be reviewed "as a BA stout" just as taste and smell would be. bashing BCBS for smelling of oak would be like bashing supplication for being sour... but why is the head issue different?)

    p.s. re: the appearance issue, i think that category is pretty subjective. i drop scores for bad retention and then raise them right back up because i like the color, sometimes.
     
  18. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    LOL how did you know?
     
  19. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

    Sounds like an ok saturday afternoon...where's the rest of the list?
     
  20. claaark13

    claaark13 Maven (1,412) Nov 29, 2007 Indiana
    Trader

    Reviews drive ratings, ratings drive hype, hype ruins the trading forums, the trading forums ruin my day(s).
     
    BBThunderbolt, Orca and MordorMongo like this.
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