First batch failed. Any advice?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by 3morley, Mar 3, 2012.

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  1. 3morley

    3morley Initiate (0) May 26, 2010 Illinois

    So I had high hopes on my first try, but a number of things went wrong and, as I feared, the IPA I brewed doesn't taste very good - sour tasting, the malts dominate, and not much alcohol in the flavor.

    I made a lot of mistakes, but the top 3 were:

    1) My hydrometer broke on brew day, and I didn't have an adequate thermometer, so I never got an OG, and basically guessed that my wort had chilled to below 75 degrees when I pitched the yeast. I also cooled the wort in open air - I've read that that is a big mistake. T

    2) Fermentation was very slow, as I had to store the carboy in a basement area where the temp hovered between 54-58 degrees. Also, there was heavy sediment at the bottom of the carboy within like 12 hours. Does this mean that the yeast was dying quicker than expected? I finally managed to get the carboy to an area where the temp was between 64 and 66 degrees, but it wasn't until about 10 days later.

    3) Sanitization drove me nuts, and I suspect I failed in both directions at various stages - too much at the beginning, and not enough in the transfering/siphoning stages. I cleaned and rinsed everything like crazy at the beginning using PBW and Bleach. I rinsed everything thereafter with tap water, and proceeded to boil the wort. When I transferred to a secondary I had problems trying to siphon, and was paranoid with a number of things: the tap water in the siphon, wondering if my hands were clean, getting water into the siphon tube (it touched the sink constantly), etc etc. The wort already smelled suspicious when I racked to a secondary, but the transfer to the bottling bucket was a small tragedy, as I had to constantly re-sanitize when my siphon failed. I just bought an auto-siphon for my next batch. During the bottling stage I used a lot of Star San and didn't rinse, but by this stage it may have been too late anyway.

    In any case, I didn't have a veteran homebrewer around to give me pointers along the way, and as a result, I feel like there are all kinds of variables in terms of what went wrong. And I particularly hate being anal about the sanitization. Do any of you have any friendly advice, or even stories about a bad first batch? I've got my second kit and want to brew better beer. Just seeking a little motivation/help.
     
  2. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Relax, don't worry about it, have a homebrew.

    Your two biggest mistakes, by far, were letting the wort cool in open air and then fermenting super-cold (if this was an ale; if this was a lager, that's actually perfect). You're going to want to ferment an ale in the high 60s all the way up to high 70s. Don't worry overly much about pitching yeast when you're too warm. Most yeast is hardy enough to deal with it being a little too hot (even up to, like 90), but they'll go to sleep or die immediately if it's too cold. They won't ferment until they're in prime time, but it's often safe to cheat hot rather than cold. By cooling in open air, any microbes in the air had the feast of their lifetimes before the yeast ever showed up, then it was too cold for the yeast to do their job properly afterward.

    Uncertainty around temperature is a good reason to use a bucket rather than a carboy for primary -- no guesswork, and you can put a contact thermometer on the bucket itself. Plus, it'll have a spigot, so your first re-rack won't require a conventional siphon. Star san and the like is always better than bleach or other traditional cleaners. Even if they kill the bacteria, they can do nasty, nasty things to the taste -- chemical. You can also sanitize bottles by just throwing them in the oven. It's a good idea to strip the labels off if you go this route. You won't necessarily burn the house down, but it isn't out of the question. You don't need to be anal, just use star san on everything before you get rolling and you'll be fine.

    As for a bad first batch story, I don't have one. I do, however, have a hilarious bad second batch story (I've made about 10 at this point). I used someone else's Black IPA recipe after a very successful starter American Pale. And I did everything wrong. It probably needed a colander-style partial mash, I did the wrong water treatment, I forgot to buy yeast (thankfully a buddy ran out to pick it up for me), and then I couldn't get my sink to plug up for an ice bath. Worse, the lid kept coming off of the brew bottle while in the sink, so it was gradually getting cold but then getting repeatedly exposed to the fresh air. Then I compounded all of this by trying to dry hop without anyone teaching me how -- so I put the next round of hops in without a bag or cheesecloth around them, so they basically suspended themselves in the beer. When it came time to bottle, the hops clogged the autosiphon (nearly broke it), and I had to more or less pour from carboy into a funnel into each bottle, spilling black beer everywhere. It's kind of miraculous my wife didn't leave me.

    And that's without mentioning that every time you open one, it explodes. Not a gusher like you might have heard about, but literally being able to shoot beer 20 feet or more. I'm not sure what infection it had, but everything was beyond super-carbonated. The pressure was just ridiculous and there was no way to prevent. You wouldn't believe what happened when we popped a growler of it I opened. It coated the entire ceiling of the apartment and then dripped all of it back down.

    Bad batches happen to all of us. You need to get back on the horse, try again, and learn.
     
  3. robbrandes

    robbrandes Initiate (0) Nov 30, 2010 Oregon
    Trader

    can't help much on the first two, other than saying - thermometer is critical, hydro is not too far behind (especially at 5 bucks or whatever) but not a deal-breaker. if you were 75 degrees+, yeah, all kinds of potential for funkiness and off-flavors. equally important, make sure your yeast is as close to the same temp as the wort when you pitch.

    trub/sediment in the bottom of the fermenter at 12 hours was little (if any) yeast; especially since you said there was little if any initial fermentation. it's the normal hop debris, proteins, etc. presumably came from your brew kettle. some folks are hyper-cautious about not letting any of the trub get into their fermenter (either filtering or their valve is set up ~1" off the bottom of the brew kettle, so when they drain it, the trub largely stay behind. me, i don't sweat it. presuming i've used at least some whole-leaf hops during the boil, i just transfer/dump the whole friggin' kettle through a strainer. purists will say this might impart off-flavors in the final product, but my group of friends is always more than satisified with my final product.

    as for sanitation, i think it's somewhat over-rated, but you can't be reckless. i always cool my beer outside, with no lid on the kettle. i've only had 1 skunked batch out of 50+ batches in 3+ years, and i seriously doubt the lid was a factor. i guess it's certainly possible to have 'something' floating by in the air land it kettle, but... the rest of your processes sound fine. yeah, the hose bumps the sink for me too. not to say i'd let the dog lick it. any off-aromas at transfer were certainly NOT due to sanitation. an 'infection' would take days to get to the point of noticeable smell.

    biggest single rec - use a yeast starter if you didn't.
    good luck!
    -RB
     
  4. erod61

    erod61 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2006 Wisconsin

    I'll try and give it a shot. I've never really had a "failed" batch just some I liked better than others.

    1. Hydrometer. You don't say what you used ( kit, extract, all grain etc). You could use Brewsmith or another calculator to get you in the ballpark for OG. Also temp correcting hydrometer readings is necessary to be accurate

    2. Chilling wort. A plain old 25' garden variety wort chiller is one of the best tool you can have. Shortens your brew day and gets your wort yeast ready as fast as you can to prevent infection. When I got mine, I wondered how I brewed without it.

    3. Temp control. You didn't specify what yeast you used, but 54 to 58 seems a little cool. I am still particular to dry yeast as it seems I have better, quicker and more complete fermentations with it. I usually use a blanket or towel around the carboy to help keep it warm. Remember that the temp inside the bucket or carboy is a couple of degrees warmer than the temp on the bucket.

    4. Sanitation. I've never used anything other than the oxygen based Easy Clean, type no rinse powders. I like to sanitize, rinse and then lay everything out on a clean towel and cover it.

    I've always learned the most from batches I've had trouble with. Hope this helps. E.
     
  5. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Just thinking off of the top of my head, here are some of the most important things that I feel are important in making a good homebrew:

    1. Relax, don't worry... I fully agree with Charlie Papazian that worrying will ruin a homebrew (or at least the homebrewing experience) faster than anything.

    2.. That said, sanitation is the most important technical thing. Use starsan or iodophor. I used bleach for years; wish I had switched sooner. Measure accurately and both starsan and iodophor are no rinse.

    3. Brewers make wort; yeast make beer. Keep the yeast happy and they will keep you happy. Learn how to make a starter; at least 750 mL for each batch (assuming you are using Wyeast or White Labs, which you should be doing). And aerate your wort. If you ferment in a bucket this can be achieved by pouring your wort back and forth between two buckets several times. If you use a carboy, plug the carboy and rock back and forth for 5 minutes, periodically opening the carboy to let more air in as oxygen is taken up by the wort. And then ferment at the temperature that makes the yeast most happy; for ales this is usually in the 60's someplace.

    4. Don't go crazy making up your own recipes until you have a good understanding of the basic styles. It is easy to make a beer that is totally out of balance if you are not careful. There are plenty of recipes out there to base your initial beers on. A good place to look is the Northern Brewer site: they have the ingredients for all of their kits there.

    5. If you really want to get good at it, read, read, read. John Palmer, Charlie Papazian, Michael Jackson, Ray Daniels, Randy Mosher, Zmurgy, and Brew Your Own are places to get started.

    Lastly, if I were starting now, I'd probably stick with one style and make it several times until I was happy with it; probably a pale ale as it is fairly simple but not too forgiving.
     
  6. 3morley

    3morley Initiate (0) May 26, 2010 Illinois

    Thanks for the responses, it really helps. One of the key differences I'll employ next time is to go to a plastic bucket for the primary, and I'll try a yeast starter. I'll also try to be more specific in recording temps and gravity, and drink less while brewing (forgot to mention that bit, that I wasn't at the top of my wits when doing some of the more crucial transfers, etc).

    I use star san more frequently, and let things drip dry more often. One of the difficult things in terms of cleaning is that I don't have a lot of space, I was forced to basically hold carboys up to the shower head.

    For my next batch I plan to dry hop as well. One of the most disappointing things about my present batch is that the hop character is basically nil. I am a huge fan of hoppy, "West-Coast" IPAs where the hops are almost too dominant. Out here in Michigan, I love Short's The Liberator, Arbor's "Buzzsaw", and Founder's "All Day IPA." These are the kinds of beers I'd love to be able to mimic or reinterpret someday. So I'll try and hop-bomb my next batch.

    And I did use a filter when I transferred the boiled wort into the primary. I will try this batch with no filter. That's what the secondary for anyway right?

    In any case, thanks again. I hope to relax with my own homebrew soon enough. Happy Brewing!
     
  7. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm new like you, so I read all these threads about new brewing experiences (on several forums). My comments would be as follows...

    Definitely try the dry hops. I put two ounces of cascade into my English IPA, against the recipe, and it turned out great. I assume the recipe wouldn't have been hoppy enough for me had I not dry hopped it.

    I've been using dry yeast and having good results. I'm not doing high gravity beers yet though. I'd work on the process a bit more before you start doing yeast starters.

    Don't over-stress on sanitation. Just make sure everything is wet with sanitizer before it touches beer. I keep a pitcher full of sanitizer and a kitchen pot full of sanitizer and pour over my utensils before they touch the beer. Just let them drip a few seconds and go for it. Use starsan. Suds are good. They won't hurt the beer. You can pump sanitizer through your auto-siphon before it touches the beer too. Just start the bottling or racking process and let the sanitizer drain into a bucket before the beer goes into the next container.

    Read a lot, post a lot, use multiple forums to find info that helps you.

    Find an experienced brewer to brew a batch with if you can. My first batch was with an experienced brewer. It helped a lot.

    Don't give up, try again.

    Don't get too drunk while brewing, but definitely relax and have a few beers!

    Good luck man!
     
  8. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    One more thing: don't use a bottling bucket! Siphon direct from secondary to bottles. Really cuts down on infection opportunity.
     
  9. MontpelierArtie

    MontpelierArtie Devotee (325) Jun 23, 2010 Vermont

    Are you priming each bottle?
     
  10. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Nah. Prime the entire batch in secondary, then siphon like crazy.

    Never fails, except for that one time it failed spectacularly. But I think that was more about bottling taking three hours owing to a busted auto siphon.
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    How do you avoid stirring trub back up into suspension when adding the priming sugar?
     
  12. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I've been using a bottling bucket (actually a carboy) but not doing secondary fermentations. Only doing 5.5 gallons at a time. Anyone care to comment?
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Nothing wrong with that, but a bottling bucket (with a spigot) would make your life easier.
     
  14. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yeah I need to get another bucket with a spigot on it. I wish I had paid more attention at first because I would have just gone with two 6.5 gallon buckets, one with a spigot.

    The carboy is only 5 (or 5.5 maybe?) gallons so it's not very useful as a primary fermentation vessel. The blowoff would be catastrophic if I got any kind of major high krausen. I've already had one minor overflow with a 6.5 gallon bucket. Made a bit of a mess but no big deal, just had to clean and replace the airlock and clean up a small mess.

    The carboy would be good for secondary fermentations but I'm not doing those at the moment.
     
  15. MontpelierArtie

    MontpelierArtie Devotee (325) Jun 23, 2010 Vermont

    Yeah, why I asked. I don't understand why you'd prime into secondary because I'd think you'd have to stir the sugar in. I'm ready to be enlightened.
     
  16. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    So long as you make a simple syrup on the stove with your priming sugar before adding it, you need to stir a lot less than you might think. I typically pour it in without stirring, which actually gives a more even distribution of sugar than vigorous stirring will. Put the airlock back on, wait 30 minutes, put in the auto-siphon, do a really light stir so as not to pull up the trub, and away we go.
     
  17. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Really, so not stirring gives a more even distribution than vigorously stirring, is that so?

    As far as "don't use a bottling bucket! ... Really cuts down on infection opportunity." How about this, don't use a secondary, as this increases the risk of infection just as much as using a bottling bucket does. Personally I'd far prefer to go from primary to bottling bucket to bottles than from primary to secondary to bottles.
     
  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    "I typically pour it in without stirring, which actually gives a more even distribution of sugar than vigorous stirring will."

    Um. Okay. :astonished:
     
  19. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    When I bottle, this is how I do. I prime in whole thing in the bottling bucket. During the transfer from primary to the bucket, I keep my racking cane elevated about an inch or so from the bottom to avoid transfer lots of trub. What does transfer settles out a little bit in the bucket and a little bit in the bottle, and is not a major problem. As Vikeman says, the spigot makes your life easier. Although drgarage says skip the bucket, I never mastered the technique for bottling as he describes - I'd spill a lot of beer, lose the siphon vacuum, and have to restart it frequently. To each his own. The transfer to the bucket should not contribute any more significantly to infection risk than drgarage's transfer to secondary. Cleaning and sanitizing buckets is easy.
     
  20. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    You want to get anal about sanitizing. My first 4 or 5 batches were infected messes. Getting careful about sanitizing helped me make good beers. For the last 90 or so batches, nothing touched the cold side wort or beer without treatment by iodophor, star san, or boiling water. For me, in my early brews, I suspect the biggest source of infection was bottle contamination, because the degree of infection seemed variable from bottle to bottle. If you are going to bottle beer, you really must take the sanitization of the bottles very seriously. I reuse my bottles. After pouring off a beer, I rinse out the bottle with hot tap water, making sure that all yeast and sediments are gone. Before bottling, I soak in oxyclean and scrub with a brush, rinse with 3 full volumes of hot tap water, then soak in sanitizer, empty, drain on bottle tree rack, then bottle.

    I also recommend skipping the bleach as a sanitizer in favor of star san or iodophor. I have used all three and bleach is the most problematic. Bleach requires rinsing, which is an extra step and actually increases risk of infection (if the rinse water is not sterile) or off flavors (if the bleach does not get well rinsed). Plus, when I used bleach as a sanitizer, I'd inevitably spill some on my clothes.
     
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