Recipe Fail: Bourbon Porter w/ Cherries. Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Rob_in_Chicago, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. Rob_in_Chicago

    Rob_in_Chicago Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2014 Illinois

    Hey All -- I am curious to get some thoughts on a recent experimental batch I did, one that didn't turn out so well.

    I brewed a 1-gallon Bourbon Barrel Porter kit from Northern Brewer, following the exact instructions. During a second fermentation stage I added oak chips and 3 ounces of Bourbon -- all recommended in the original recipe. But I also added two pounds of Balaton cherries from Traverse City, Michigan. I went with two pounds based on a passage I read in Designing Great Beers. Ten days later I bottled using priming sugar.

    The finished beer lacked carbonation. It also had a strong syrupy taste, similar to the consistency of cough syrup (but not as bad tasting). My first reaction was to blame it on the seal on the swing tops I used. But I also bottled a few conventional bottles and those, too, lacked carbonation.

    So I am wondering where I went wrong given all that. I have a feeling I overwhelmed things with the amount of cherries I used. Anybody ever had this problem? What is the fix?
     
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Any responders to your questions will likely want to know more about your process. I'm not familiar with Balaton cherries. Were there canned in syrup (adding the syrup too?), frozen, or fresh from the produce section of your supermarket? These were added with other ingredients in the secondary fermenter, but did you take a gravity reading before adding these items as well as after you think fermentation was complete? Any information that you can add will help determine what the problem might be.
     
  3. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Would 3 oz Bourbon in a 1 gal batch be enough to kill the yeast?

    How long has it been since you bottled?
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What is the gravity now?
     
  5. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Not 100% familiar with this kit, but I assume that this is a fairly high gravity beer. Do you have the original and final gravity readings? High gravity beers can take much longer to carbonate. I aerate using pure oxygen, and pitch plenty of healthy yeast using a starter and my last bottled big beer took almost 3 months to carbonate.
     
  6. Rob_in_Chicago

    Rob_in_Chicago Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2014 Illinois

    The cherries were dried. Balaton cherries are supposed to be more tart. I didn't take a gravity reading (which I usually do--I suspect this probably would have revealed some clues). In terms of other information, I monitored the temperature closely -- 68 to 73 degrees the whole time in the area where the batch was stored. The batch blew out in both the first and second fermentations. The second fermentation was particularly active -- going for three days. (I attached tubing to the airlock and blew off into a pitcher of sanitized water.) The three ounces of Bourbon was what was recommended in the recipe (2-3 actually). I used Jim Beam Devil's Cut. It has been about a month since I bottled. The yeast was Danstar Windsor, which was supplied with the kit. The kit also supplied dark dry and wheat dry malt extract and Chinook and Williamette hops.

    In addition, I did a honey wheat batch with varying amounts of cherries. Those batches did have carbonation. The taste of those needs some work, but they did have carbonation.
     
  7. Rob_in_Chicago

    Rob_in_Chicago Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2014 Illinois

    Thanks for all the feedback so far. To ChrisMyhre's point -- maybe I just need to wait it out a bit?
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you didn't take a gravity reading and are unable/unwilling to do that now, I'd suggest waiting it out from very far away.
     
    stb08007, ChrisMyhre and tkdchampxi like this.
  9. Rob_in_Chicago

    Rob_in_Chicago Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2014 Illinois

    I can gladly take one tonight...(I'm at work now).
     
  10. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    He's suggesting that you may have bottle bombs based on the likelihood of continuing fermentation in the bottle. It's definitely worth taking a gravity reading and making sure fermentation was complete.
     
    stb08007 likes this.
  11. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    Yeah but you would think if they were going to be bottle bombs he'd already have some carbonation, no?
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Not necessarily, if it's a high ABV or Weak Yeast slow burn. What concerns me is the syrupy taste the OP described. Sounds like a bunch of sugar to me.
     
    stb08007 likes this.
  13. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I just looked at the NB website to see if there was a typo or something in the instructions...but no...they are recommending 2-3 oz bourbon in a 1 gal batch and 16 oz in a 5 gal batch. Am I missing something or does that seem like a shit load of bourbon? (not the "wee dram" the instructions also described)

    I've soaked oak chips with just enough to cover and then tossed the liquid and it was plenty for my taste (in a 5 gal batch).
     
    skivtjerry likes this.
  14. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    If you had an active secondary fermentation then the alcohol from the bourbon did not kill the yeast. My next guess is that the priming sugar may not be mixed well, and that the bottles that you've tested so far have had minimal sugar in them. However, that does not explain the sugary taste that you experienced. If the bottles are still at the 68-72 degree range, then I'd say just sit tight and monitor those bottles by opening one occasionally to see how the carbonation is progressing. If you start to see over-carbonation because too much sugar was left available for the yeast to feast, then you'll have to chill them quickly to put the yeast to sleep and stop the carbonation process.
     
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  15. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    How long was it in the primary? in the secondary?
     
  16. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Do you still have the package the cherries came in, or can you go get a new package at the store? At least go look at the package? Dried cherries probably have sulfites added which will kill the yeast. This would stop all further fermenting, including the sugar in the cherries and what was added to prime, thus the syrupy sweetness.
     
  17. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Something still doesn't sound right
     
  18. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    Unless it was degassing?
    Just throwing ideas around
     
    jbakajust1 and GreenKrusty101 like this.
  19. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    That's what I was thinking too. A lot of people equate airlock activity with fermentation activity. Could just be a whole lot of CO2 escaping solution from the cherries as nucleation sites. Unless the OP saw active churning of the wort kicked up after adding the cherries then I am still wondering if it is sulfutes in the dried fruit.
     
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  20. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Shit went downhill once Dawson left.
     
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