O'so 7th Anniversary Party

He will be in a month or two.

 

I'm gonna try my BBINT tonight. Bottle of 12dog is sitting right behind it in the fridge, to ease the frustration if necessary.

 

I'm not buying any of the new BA CD or Coconut NT. They have a long, long, long way to go before my faith is restored on any meaningful level. As has been stated before, they distributed the last batch of BANT's immediately after the party even knowing there are carb issues and that at best, it needed a few weeks of bottle conditioning, and at worst possibly was infected and/or flat. People get some angst because Hill Farmstead's bottle release schedule changes so often, but Shaun always simply says it will be sold once he decides that the bottles are ready. That and his getting upset when people pour old growlers of his beer at bar events in Washington DC demonstrates pride (if a bit fanatic) in his product. I don't see that same kind of commitment from O'so. I don't expect O'so to be as dogged as Shaun Hill but I do expect more from them if they are going to receive my money for their products moving forward. Isn't good craft beer supposed to be high quality? Perhaps we shouldn't be giving breweries passes so readily for this kind of thing.

I'm sure there's enough people out there that will blindly buy them, which is fine, but I have a lot of other options to spend my hard-earned money on.

 

Except he won't be brewing or inoculating there. It's for storage, not coolshipping.

 

Same here. I spent $60 on 4 drain pours, so I'm not in the mood to buy any O'so beer for a while.

 

Well... the carbonation level isn't too bad.. but this BBINT bottle is infected. I still have a [poblano] sitting around but it's no fun planning an evening around drinking a bottle that you're weary of opening..

 

It's been kind of a weird byproduct of the sour boom combined with the "gotta catch em all" mentality of the more "enthusiastic" craft beer dorks. Brewers can release an infected batch of whatever, call it a soured version and people still buy it up as if the whole thing were intentional. This whole situation seems to go over and above just having and releasing an infected batch as such though.

 

I opened up a bottle of Blackberry Imp Night Train last week, and it was certainly completely un-carbonated (as expected).
But beyond that, it was an extremely tasty brew. Absolutely not infected in any way. It's a thick, strong stout with a little bit of berry sweetness on the end. I was very impressed with it. I may pick up some Fizz Drops from Northern Brewer and try to force some carbonation in my remaining bottles.

Haven't opened a regular BA Night Train yet, but so far I'm 2 for 2 with these being excellent beers minus the carbonation. I'm curious as to why people think it's infected. I've tried infected Peruvian Morning, and I can strongly say that the BA Night Train bottles that I've had are absolutely not infected.

 

My bottles of Pablano and Blackberry tasted pretty damn similar to CW PM (infected bottles) so I can say that both were infected.

 

So yours tasted like bitter/sour weirdness? When I had the infected PM, you could tell it was infected even by the smell. The flavor was horrid and resembled nothing of a beer.

I'm just curious if people "think" it's infected because the lack of carbonation makes it taste more raw, or if people are actually getting straight up putrid off-flavors in their bottles.

 

I think it's luck of the draw. I've now had pours from five different bottles, and while all could have used more carbonation, none were infected, but it's clear from what others have encountered that infection is a problem with this beer.

 

I didn't even know these beers were infected until after I drank them, but yeah...that "sour infected" taste was the most prevalent when drinking both. Really sucks because Pablano would have tasted real good with some nice heat on the back end. The Blackberry on the other hand was a bit more difficult to distinguish as infected stouts have a real similar taste profile as "berry" stouts. I didn't even pick up on it until I cracked Pablano the next day and it tasted extremely similar to Blackberry. That's when I knew something was amiss.

 

From Marc via Facebook.. addresses the carbonation, but to me what is more relevant is what he has to say about the "infection" issue.

"[Re:] Nov 8th released BBNT variants (Blackberry, Poblano and Straight) Carbonation issue
First off, we are very sorry anybody is dealing with this. The folks that purchased the beers at O'so during the event Nov 8th were notified that the carbonation was incomplete, but I think we underestimated how big the beer was. We actually stored freshly filled bottles in our incubator for a week @ 90degs and some carbonation was coming on, so we assumed that it would fully develop after that. The product that went to liquor stores went out without our knowledge. It was supposed to be stored warm for a period at the distributor. In the future, nothing goes out until it is fully carbed. Carbonation issue yes! Infection no! Carbonation issues are to the best of our knowledge an ABV issue. The beer is 12.18% (we ran these through Point Brewery alcholizer), there is viable yeast (fresh yeast was added at bottling and lab checked in the bottles under the microscope). We are seeing carbonation continue to develop in the straight BBNT and Poblano, but the Blackberry (The last bottled of the original beers) is pretty flat to date. All these beers were bottle conditioned just like a homebrew so we are counting on many factors here. Bottom line is we believe the yeast are having a tough time doing their work in this environment. In my opinion, given time, these beers will all carbonate to correct levels as the yeast count increases.
I believe the taste people are experiencing that is leading them to believe it is infected is acetone (ethyl acetate). We aged a 50/50 mix of 12yr heaven hill barrels and "ancient heaven hill barrels that were 25-40 yrs old". Of the 40 barrels we aged, 10 of the ancient had to be discarded because of the ethyl acetate being above acceptable threshold. We sampled from every remaining barrel and created a blend in our lab that we deemed acceptable. We HLP'd (checked for lacto and pedio in test tube in our lab) a dozen random bottles off the stack just to be sure we didn't have a single fill head that caused an infection and nothing grew in the HLP. Not sure what to say here except that we will not be using "ancient barrels" again. The oxygen uptake in those old barrels must have been pretty great to cause this oxidative effect.
We will always stand behind our products. Not sure how we can exchange product in Milwaukee or Madison without having a pocket full of cash or beer to replace, but we will be doing an event the evening before the CW party (Jan 23rd) and would exchange full beers there for sure. Instructions for exchange will be posted in the Taphouse that night.
We just bottled the BANT w/Coconut nibs and are bottling the BB Convenient Distraction on Monday. We have increased the priming rate for these beers and added high gravity yeast. These are possible exchange beers.
Rob, these are situations that every brewery dreads the most, especially when we were very proud of these beers. I personally have lost sleep over this issue. All we can do is sharpen our pencil for the next round and hope to get better every time we learn from these mistakes. For starters, we have learned to never release another beer unless it is fully carbonated. Also certainly check the ABV and choose your priming yeast carefully.
Can you please share this with your group and let everyone know that we truly appreciate the support and promise to keep getting better. See you in January! Marc Buttera"

 

I had the poblano on tap at the party and it was good; just some mild heat added to the base beer. The bottle I had a month later was a sour, metallic flavored mess. It was either infected or their blending could use a lot of work.

 

So the BBNT should be tart? I expected the Blackberry NT to be tart, but not the BBNT. Okay then.

There is no way to exchange the beers I purchased, because I opened them, to you know, DRINK them. Good luck to O'so. I hope they make some killer beer this round to gain back my trust in them.

 

I just hope I can get a refund for my two remaining bottles since I frankly don't want any more bottles from them right now. I want my money to put toward beer from a sure thing.

 

Next they'll say the 2012 BBNT was never infected and blame it on the "ancient Heaven Hill barrels". That's fine. I want my money back for the other 2014 BBNT bottles, though.

 

When I returned my case of 2012 BBNT Katina and some of the other staff I talked to said they traced 2012 back to the bottle filler and if you noticed Mark mentioned they specifically tested for that this time around.

I guess I don't get why people are so upset I am close friends with people who own brewery's and who work as brewers in a number of different capacities infections happen they are preventable to a certain extent but not 100%. I'm amazed it doesn't happen more in commercial craft brewing to be honest.

I bought a case of BBNT in 2012 that I ended up exchanging for other beers that was like $168 you guys seem to be pretty upset over a couple of bottles. O'so is principally a homebrew shop that had a tap room and brewery added to it watch some YouTube videos they post you can see how small there operation really is. As such even a small mistake has large consequences for them as their scale makes any problems an order of magnitude worse.

There's a reason Levi partnered with O'so to do his funk factory beers I guess its just hard for me to understand the resentment against O'so.

I only opened the regular BBNT so far and to my taste it wasn't sour it had that nailpolishy taste to it. I had sour night train a few times I know what it tastes like the one bottle I drank didn't seem to be infected just had off flavors. I realize that doesn't prove or disprove anything just putting it out there.

BTW since the 2012 BBNT was infected through the bottling some of them wheren't infected Katina and Mark kept a bunch that was returned cuz there are still some good bottles. Of the four I drank from my case I had one good one (like BA hersey chocolate syrup amazingly good)

Im not trying to say they did nothing wrong either mistakes where made by O'so but why would you write them off most of you campion for CW even though they consistently had problems with PM what other beers besides BBNT (and wee on the lam too I guess lol) have been infected?

Not picking on @Stevedore or @THANAT0PSIS either this is directed at basically the entire thread.

 

I had two of the infected 2012 bottles, plus they served it knowingly infected on tap. Wee on the Lam is another strike, since I had a bottle of that as well. I purchased the bottles this time around because the beer was good on tap only to be disappointed. Then they at first tried to play it off as minor, which rubbed me the wrong way. Finally, they come out and take mostly full responsibility (except blaming the barrel...), which I give them props for. After all three of the bottles last time being uncarbonated and potentially infected plus their spotty-at-best track record, I just don't want to take the chance on them again.

How many times do I have to give them the benefit of the doubt before I can just be done? To me, it's been enough until they can get several in a row that aren't off/infected/undercarbed, and I'll leave it up to others that have more patience and optimism to figure that out for me. Until then, I'm done with them. I want a refund so I can give Levi (whose only sin is Sikaru, and given that it's an ancient and obscure style, I don't even know if he missed on it or not, so that's the benefit of the doubt for him) more money for what I believe is a sure thing.

I love CW, and I disliked them for screwing up Peruvian several years in a row. You know why I don't hold it against them? They offered full refunds for the beers, took full responsibility for it, stopped making the problematic beer, and it was localized to one beer. Their handling of the situation was far better than O'so. Plus they put out higher quality stuff overall. I'm willing to give a great brewery (at least their barrel stuff since I find the regulars acceptable at best) more chances than I am an average brewery, which, in my eyes, is a generous label to place on O'so.

There is far too much great beer out there to keep putting my hard-earned cash and valuable time into drinking mediocrity (or worse in the case of infection/off bottles).

 

I think there is still some debate as to whether or not they are infected where did you have infected night train on tap? I only had it on tap at the brewery in 2012 and it was awesome. I believe the problems have been confined to the bottles though correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't see why they wouldn't give you a refund I mean it wasn't mentioned specifically but when I contacted O'so last year I could either exchange my beers or get a refund.

Too be fair there wasn't anything really wrong with wee on the lamb it was meant to be a wee heavy but got infected. It turned out to be awesome and they released it as a Flanders style sour. While it wasn't intentional they didn't try to pass it off as anything other than a happy accident. I thought it was awesome.

I am unaware of any other issues besides 2012 and 2014 BA night trains. In my experience with 2014 I have yet to detect any infection just off flavors (which still isn't good) in 2012 by this time BBNT tasted like a sour burnt sock.

As to your relationship with O'so you could swear violent and bloody vengeance against them if you wanted to I just don't get it is all I was saying to me its a risk you take and I just accept that buying the kinds of beers I do infection is a possibility.

Maybe I'm a fool but I have yet to experience anything that would prevent me from buying their beer in the future.