Bad trader @BDavidson14

The condescending BM from @cavedave was a nice touch. He definitely seems like a standup guy now.

 

At least he did it privately, you called him shady in public, adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Why would he have "made good" on something he thought he was not involved in???!!!!!
Threads like this make me happy I've never done the BIF or group trading crap, theres just way too many idiots out there.

 

He knew he was in the BIF...He posted in the hints and haulz sent a box and registered his team for the draft...his logic is he never received a box from his target who was a deadbeat and hasn't logged on since October. He owes me a box which I have said a few posts previously I would take care of him if he promised to deliver on his end (meaning I would be basically put my self in his shoes willingly). I don't believe I have ever interacted with him previous but I know he has a good rep on the site and often does have positive contributions. I will say his posts in regards to this situation have been more that disappointing...

 

@UcDru can you please post what were the "rules" in the box requirements to be sent out. Or what is owed to you. Thanks in advance

 

If this is in-regards to taking care of me for @cavedave let's ensure he is taken care of first as his box was due from @BDavidson14 prior to the start of the NFL season. If you want to "go halves" on taking care of him, I am up for it if you have his address BM it over (assuming @cavedave is ok with this).

It sounds like @BDavidson14 has split and will not be making good on his commitments. If @cavedave is taken care of appropriately which includes:
"72oz minimum of local beers and/or wants
1 beer related piece of swag
1 football related swag"
it is my hope that he will fulfill his commitments.

 

The timeframe for "before getting called out" is not exactly up to the person getting called out, is it? This situation clearly has no easy answer, and as it's been established it is not @cavedave that is primarily at fault here, it's the person that should have sent to him @BDavidson14.

I don't think this is quite right; he knew he tried to join the BIF, but by his explanation of the circumstances, it seems to me that his impression was that he believed he was removed. Someone that has done BIFs but not FFB could certainly be under the impression that being left out = no longer involved, despite that FFB does not work that way and your team essentially continues on without you. @jshusc made a good point about this earlier.

I'm not saying that not receiving a box makes not sending one owed 'OK', I'm saying that 'Not being a participant' would make not sending a box 'OK', and that seems to have been the assumption under which Dave was operating, to find out otherwise certainly would be jarring.

There certainly are idiots out there, but I'm sad to hear you say this. Frankly, I have heard dozens of times from BIF community members new and old that they have given up on any type of trading that is NOT part of a BIF for this exact reason (often among others).

Like in any trading scenario, issues can arise, but one of the great things about the BIF version of trading is that unlike a direct 1:1 trade, there is an entire group involved to make right anything that goes wrong, often without threads like this even needing to exist (they wind up being created to warn the larger community of problem players, but the issue at hand is commonly resolved before it goes public).

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/2014-brew-ha-ha-ff-hints-and-hauls-thread.204685/
http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...ball-league-sign-ups-9-players-needed.192993/

if you read thru the threads I don't see how you couldn't think you weren't "IN"

out of my hands but it's impossible to get a hold of people without pertinent info/email


we all signed on with the disclaimer that people would be joining without prior trades so we all have a little blame to shoulder IMO

still have til superbowl and we're on to BAL which I don't think we're going to win

 

I don't see anywhere on the league page or in the Hints and Hauls thread (http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/2014-brew-ha-ha-ff-hints-and-hauls-thread.204685/) where he asked to be removed, complained of not receiving a box or anything that would lead anyone to believe they were removed. He was the 2nd post in the thread and I am assuming he found a way to register his team prior to the live draft. Like I said I am sure he is a good guy but I do not agree with the way he is choosing to handle the situation.

Myself and another in the league mentioned not receiving a box after week 2 of the season and @Cuzco was extremely responsive and diligent in helping to get our boxes delivered. He is apologized a few times to me via BM about my senders tardiness.

I don't think it is fair to plead ignorance here. @BDavidson14 never posted in the hints and hauls page so why are we quick to persecute him and call him a bad trader but we are willing to accept that @cavedave "assumed he was not in the league".

Like I said I know cavedave has a great rep but I do think he is handling this in a poor way. Most of us know that the luckiest person in a BIF is the person who takes it on the chin. I like to think I am one of the first to step up and assist with making things right when people get stiffed or receive a poor quality box. I even tried to make it right via BM with @Cuzco and in the public on this forum for @cavedave but thus far it is falling on deaf ears.

A similar situation occurred in a NFL pick em BIF where a participant forgot about the league thus forgetting to ship a box he owed. When he was alerted/called out on this he stepped up to the plate and delivered on his responsibility. It is obvious @cavedave committed to the league via posts on BA and by registering a team on yahoo for the draft. IMO him stiffing the 3rd place finisher is pretty parallel to what @BDavidson14 has done by stiffing him. The only difference is that it is pretty clear that @BDavidson14 is long gone while @cavedave is choosing to demonstrate his dismay quite publicly.

 

Well put, and I disagree with none of it. What I said wasn't quite right from what you said is that "Dave knew he was in the league". I don't disagree at all that he should have known, having registered his team, however I am (a little) more experienced in FFB than he seems to be. The two concepts, though they are being done concurrently here, differ in one key area:

• FFB has a registration and once you complete it, you are IN, no matter what else happens your team exists and takes up space.
• A BIF has sign-ups and if when targets go out, you don't get one and no one gets you as theirs, you are OUT. (Note: this obviously shouldn't happen, but that's what would happen if an OP made a mistake and left someone out)

I see the current scenario having played out as Dave approaching this like it was simply a BIF, while everyone else approached it like it was a FFB league (which is the correct approach, but one Dave may not have known to take).

I do agree with you that the way it is being handled since the winners were declared is not ideal on Dave's part, and any defense I give of his actions comes with the assumed caveat that he is willing to and at some point does make good on his commitment. In the meantime, if he has not yet had the above difference explained to him, I can understand why he would still be treating this as essentially a 2-round BIF that he got screwed in the first round, so why participate in the 2nd? That this is not how FFB leagues work may not be as inherently obvious as those that play in fantasy leagues may think.

 

@cavedave , you know I love and respect you, brother, and I understand where you're coming from your explanation. However, I feel you dropped the ball on this one on a couple of fronts and that you should hold to your commitment and send the box to @UcDru .

First, you should've called out @BDavidson14 publicly and put more efforts into getting help from @Cuzco and the league. This would've helped you get your beer and continue with the league because I'm sure people would have chipped in for your box if @BDavidson14 didn't come through. In calling out, you would've also warn other traders and leagues about BDavidson14. I feel that when traders/BA gets screwed out of something, they have the responsibility warn the community. Taking the loss is one thing and is definitely a noble thing, but it doesn't help the rest of the community. In other words, there should be a different thread tagging @BDavidson14 in the title that was started by you.

Secondly, there should've been much clearly communication regarding your intent after you got screwed. Post it on the thread or in the conversation and say I did not get my first box so I am out. I'm sure everyone will want to know what happen and those who play would help you out.

Overall, while the root cause was @BDavidson14 failure to meet his commitment, I feel that by deciding not to send a box that you technically owed because someone else screwed you over and you accept that loss is still failure to meet your commitment.

That said, I'd like to propose this solution: we as a group will come together as we've always had and send you, Dave, the box that @BDavidson14 owed you. I'll be happy to take the lead (using the league criteria above) and if people want to get involved and share the cost (instead of 5 people sending 5 different small boxes), PM me, I'll let you know how we can work it out. Once you get your box, Dave, you can send out the box you owed to @UcDru. I don't really know how the rest of the league rules work, @Cuzco , but if it's resolved this way and any other box needs to be sent for the rest of the season from Dave, would it be acceptable that he is officially out of the league and no further boxes will be expected of him?

 

Well put, not that I'd expect any less from you.

Since we're in roughly the same area I could add a bottle to a box you're sending rather easily, and it'd give me a good excuse to finally meet up with you for a round. I may not check back into this thread much going forward, please BM me if and when this comes to pass?

 

These are my final words on subject,again, and I wish I didn't again have to reply, but you have made it so I have to add this, due to complete misunderstanding of my trying desperately not to have this publicly out here. It is because someone else wants to have it aired publicly, and refused to take care of it privately. And now you are forcing me to reply again.

Why should it be necessary for me to make the bad trader alert? the Adminstrator of the BIF gets tracking numbers from members of the BIF. Why didn't he alert, he obviously knew long before I did that no box was sent, because he didn't get a tracking number. And he knew the name of the person supposed to send, I didn't.

And I just found out why I was unable to log in, ironically from one of y'all who is stalking me telling me I did wrong. It was an unfortunate occurrence due to the contested divorce I am going through and my wife having all our joint yahoo email account stuff sent to her private account, to which I cannot log into.

This all could have been avoided with one simple reply to me back then. I wish I would have made more of a stink back then. That's on me. Here is why I didn't. I had lots more questions about what was a completely new thing to me. But if I couldn't even get a reply to my first request for help, and if I already got stiffed for a box like I did, I thought at the time, just fucking forget this whole thing. That is what I thought based on what happened to me, just fucking forget this whole thing. The person I sent a box to will be a random act of good will, and that will be that, I thought. That's on me.

Was I stupid to not realize that there was some rule that even if you can't log in, don't choose a team, don't participate in the league, don't receive a box, don't receive a reply to a request for help til the season is over, I lose, guaranteed. Yes, I was stupid. but I know for a fact that if I was in the position of being the one everyone believes I owe a box to I would just tell that person to forget it. I know for a fact if I ran the BIF and saw someone didn't send a tracking number for a box I would take care of it then. And I can only hope I would be one of the folks who chimed in on this thread that say they would be hyper aware of teams that weren't managed nor drafted and didn't play but were just imaginary teams, and I would damn sure contact the person about it long before the time I was contacted, at the end of the season and only to let me know I owe.

Do not send me a box as you propose, that ship has left the harbor. Send me the name(s) of who ever it is I supposedly owe beer to, or do whatever else you propose. But please do not make me reply again, and please don't accuse me of starting this thread. I did everything I could to keep this out of the public eye.

 

The last thing I want to see is Dave being out of another box. It's merely a technicality that Dave has to send a box to @UcDru , but since we agreed that @BDavidson14 is the ultimate responsible party and Dave doesn't want the community box, how about we then send the community box we put together directly to @UcDru instead of to Dave? What say you, @UcDru and @Cuzco ? Would that work?

 

"I'm easy, send me who to send a box(es) to and I will send another box(es), of course why wouldn't I at this point"

From Cavedaves first reply. I usually stay out of this crap, and I don't know cavedave from the Geico caveman, but if ever there was a thread that should be locked or deleted, this is it. Let the involved parties work it out themselves. My 2 cents.

 

Just curious, do you feel any accountability here as commissioner of this league?

 

I was gonna ask this as well. If you saw that Dave made no changes to his lineup ever, when would you have started contacting him?

Also if what Dave said is correct about you getting all the tracking numbers and stuff, why didn't you clue in that BDavidson also didn't send his first box?

This really seems like a situation that just went to shit all around.

 

This thread makes me hate the fanaticism of football as well as the stupid FF leagues that perpetuate it even more than I already do. And it certainly makes me never want to participate in a BIF. Way too complicated and the whole thing falls apart if one person doesn't hold up their end of the deal. If it can somehow make cavedave look like a bad dude, I want no part of it. Unbelievable.