Hoppy Lagers - Would you like more?

If you lined up 10 beers (9 IPAs and 1 IPL) do you honestly think you'd be able to pick the IPL out? You could certainly pick out different hop varieties, but some of these IPLs are so hoppy that you're not going to tell the difference. Maybe in a lower abv/IBU IPL, maybe....

@ChrisLohring the owner of Notch commented on this aspect, when asked about the differences between his IPA and IPL. Maybe he could comment further on this.

"I have (Notch). Long Play IPL and Left of the Dial IPA are the same base beer. The hops in the IPL obliterate any lager quality whatsoever.

And a Pils and IPL have nothing in common except for the lager designation, and maybe the color. To say otherwise is denial or deceit. You can call an IPL a Pils, but that doesn't make it so (and vice versa)."

 

IPAs are not my favorite style, and I prefer ales over lagers in general, so I was surprised that I liked a couple of hoppy lagers from local brewers.

The first was Schell's Arminius. The second was Summit Herkulean Woods.

Unfortunately, the Herkulean Woods was a one-of special release...

 

I really liked schells fresh hop

 

Me not so much. It had a flavor I didn't like.

 

“The hops in the IPL obliterate any lager quality whatsoever.”

I cannot personally relate to that statement. There are two qualities that a lager yeast and the lagering process bring to beers:

· Lager yeasts are highly attenuating. Lager yeasts are capable of metabolizing sugars that the vast majority of ale yeast strains can’t. For example, lager yeast strains metabolize the sugar melibose which ale yeast strains can’t. The net result is a more highly attenuated beer (i.e., a lower final gravity for a given wort).

· The lagering process encourages the precipitation of proteins and polyphenols. The net result is a beer with a “crisp/clean” quality.

Fermenting a given wort with a lager yeast strain and lagering that beer will indeed create a different beer.

Cheers!

 

You can detect these qualities in a beer that is 105 IBUs (like Kiwi Rising) and 8%+ abv? If you took their double IPL and put it next to another IPA using a similar hop profile, I'm not sure I personally could tell you which used a lager yeast, and which used an ale yeast.

Could you tell the difference between a Baltic porter and an imperial porter assuming the only difference was the yeast chosen? Maybe you can (I'm not saying you can't), but personally I cannot.

 

In addition to those to qualities, most lager yeast (especially the ubiquitous Weihenstephaner strain) produce higher levels of sulfur compounds than ale yeasts. In most well made lagers, the sulfur level is below what most would consider sulfury, but it contributes to the unique lager crispness.

 

“If you took their double IPL and put it next to another IPA using a similar hop profile, I'm not sure I personally could tell you which used a lager yeast, and which used an ale yeast.” The IPL would have a dryer finish, non-perceptible esters and a more ‘clean/crisp’ quality.

“Could you tell the difference between a Baltic porter and an imperial porter assuming the only difference was the yeast chosen?” The Baltic Porter brewed with a lager yeast would have a dryer finish, non-perceptible esters and more ‘clean/crisp’ quality.

If you know of any commercial brewery that brews the exact same beer (exact same grain bill, exact same hop schedule, etc.) but ferments one beer with lager yeast and one beer with ale yeast please let me know. I would be happy to conduct a blind tasting of these two beers.

In the meantime, to state that using a lager yeast while brewing hoppy beers makes no difference vs. ale yeast is simply not the case.

Cheers!

 

Evil Twin's Single Hop Mosaic IIPL was amazing, although very pricy.

 

I don't think we need to go to that level of detail.

Blindly line up 5 double IPAs and throw a double IPL in there. Personally, I do not believe I could detect which is the IPL. Of course using different yeasts can technically create a different beer. But at a certain IBU level those differences are subtle at best, if you can detect them at all. Again, maybe you can pick this up in the beers, personally I cannot. But everyone has different palates.

 

Yes, 100%. I find myself getting tired of IPAs, and even though it's the dead of winter, interested in lighter and crisper options. Lagers and Pils tend to be a bit boring on their own, but the addition of a bit of extra hops would do wonders.

 

“…personally I cannot.” But you do recognize that if you personally can’t distinguish the difference does not equate to the fact that there is no difference?

Cheers!

 

I like lagers, but I'm not a fan of hopping up traditional style lagers just for the sake of having it be hoppy. If I want hops, I'll just reach for an IPA, thankyouverymuch. If you're going to do a lager, please be as close to traditional as you can be.

 

I'll pile on here, I'll go so far as to say most of these breweries that are around CAN'T produce a well done Helles/Munich Dunkel/Bock/Pilsener, etc...

 

Recognize? Yes. Of course using a lager yeast creates "lager qualities" as Chris put it, whether I can detect it among 100+ IBUs or not.

But I still don't agree that these differences can be perceived in heavily hopped IPLs. Apparently so does a brewer with 20+ years experience in the industry. I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this subject.

Furthermore, you do recognize people sometimes perceive things in a beer that's all in their head, and not actually in the beer as well?

Like people thinking there was actual oak used in Firestone's Oaktoberfest, or Beeradvocates year after year actually thinking there's spices in Celebration Ale.

 

What is your definition of “traditional style lagers”?

Cheers!

 

The Helles Lagers/Munich Dunkels/Dopplebocks/Bocks that I've sampled from the German imports that I can get here. Companies like Victory and Troegs do the styles justice, but I haven't had any other domestic interpretations that cut the mustard.

 

“Furthermore, you do recognize people sometimes perceive things in a beer that's all in their head, and not actually in the beer as well?”

Brewing a beer with a lager yeast and lagering process will result in a beer with a low final gravity (dry finish), no perceptible esters (no fruity flavors), a clean/crisp quality. All of these attributes are facts and they have nothing to do with being “all in their head”.

If you do not perceive the aspects detailed above then that is something indeed personal to you.

Cheers!

 

Always?

 

Just had SN's beer camp release last Friday and it just wasn't my thing. I don't know if that's a perfect example of the style, but it just wasn't for me (after taste was a bit too 'adjunct lager' for me).

Having said that, I have enjoyed GLBC's IPL in the past.