Molasses (Treacle), Honey, and Vanilla

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by bcoyle, Jan 30, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    For a long time I have been wanting to combine Molasses (Treacle), Honey, and Vanilla bean with water and concentrate the hell out of it (basically boiling it down to a sludge). Once I have the flavor and consistency where I want it I would then like to add it to the boil roughly with 10 minutes left, in small amounts because it is concentrated, to my base stout and stir constantly to avoid scorching.

    My question is do you think I would really change the flavor/components/sugar of the honey and molasses that it wouldn't effect the gravity points but only add flavor?
     
  2. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    The sugar would still ferment out and change gravity. If you really want the sweetness to come through and not ferment you would need to finish fermentation and then pasteurize to kill the yeast. If you're looking for the flavor contributions without the sweetness I would just reduce your grain bill and add everything to the boil except the vanilla bean, which would add quite a bit more in secondary. I don't think reducing will do much except add flavor from caramelization, but that may be what you're looking for too.
     
    Slatetank likes this.
  3. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    Yeah I am looking for more of the flavor and not sweetness. Yes, I know that there will be some residual sweetness from all of the ingredients but I am hoping the reduction will help with that. I think a simple grain bill of 2Row, Crystal, and Roasted Barley would compliment and not compete with the adjuncts.
     
  4. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    I know it may seem counterintuitive but simpler sugars like honey and molasses will actually ferment out more completely and will make for a drier beer(braggot?).
     
  5. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    I 100% agree and think by having a simple grain bill some of the fermentable sugars will come from the honey/molasses. The tough part will be trying to balance the flavor as well, especially since I will be doing a reduction first. I guess I just need to try it first!!

    I think I will use treacle to help reduce the metallic flavors that molasses can put off (due to high iron).
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you do this to honey, you won't have much honey flavor/aroma left.
     
  7. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    So I would just have more fermentable sugars then aroma? I could always add honey in fermenter to get the aroma/flavor. I wonder if Maple Syrup would be better substitute to the honey?
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, you could. That's what I'd recommend. Or at flameout at the earliest.

    What's your goal? I don't think honey and maple syrup taste very similar.
     
  9. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    I really want to get a smooth velvet stout with the flavor from molasses and honey on the finish. I know it will be dry and I am ok with that. I think the tricky part will making sure it is velvet smooth. (usually from the crystal malt)
     
  10. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Smooth velvet makes me think of either oats or lactose, not crystal malts.

    Just because you use honey or molasses doesn't mean you get a dry beer. It depends on how much you use relative to the malts, 3% honey won't make a dry beer, 30% honey will.
     
  11. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    That is why I am thinking the reduction will change it as it is more concentrated??
     
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    boiling would just remove water (and lots of flavor of honey), all the sugar will still be there, which will still ferment out.
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm certainly not a cook to be able to say this for certain, but it seems to me that reducing your concoction to 'sludge' would be borderline scotching it, but that's what you want to avoid. At least it would be tricky to do.

    I've always considered sorghum to taste something like molasses when I drink some gluten-free beers that use it, so have you considered adding some of that to your beer? Just a thought.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Paging @Treb0R/aficionado.
     
  15. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I guess you gotta be an asshole for folks to remember that you're a foodservice professional...

    Anyhow, if you keep turning down the heat as it gets thicker, it won't scorch. You just have to be very, very patient, as this will take quite a while. Once you can get to about 240F on a candy thermometer, you're at 85% sugar. If you go up to 320F, it'll be 100% sugar. Cooking past this point will be caramelizing, but definitely go slow here, as you move from caramel to burnt sugar really quick. Caramelized honey does have a different flavor from caramelized sucrose, so it may be worth experimenting with. However, I personally don't think they taste different enough that once added in a small amount to a stout that you would be able to taste it.
     
  16. bcoyle

    bcoyle Initiate (0) Sep 9, 2011 Massachusetts

    Thanks for all of the advice. Once I do this I will respond with all of my steps/findings/tasting.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.