Whippersnappers (Old Man Rant)

I have noticed a similar trend. It seems over the last few months the new traders have increased significantly and in my experience not for the good of this site. I have had communication with a couple people who are outstanding people/traders but to be honest the majority of them have been jerks. I have two recent examples of this.

First, I had a entire trade set up for a whalish beer. The BA had not traded on here before so I asked him to ship first, he agreed. I was on the fence about the trade becuase I was giving up a lot for it but he told me if I could give him the beers he wanted he would do the trade for sure. I say "ok" and we exchange shipping info. After a couple of days he starts backpedaling and I see him posting the beer we had agreed to trade for in the trade forum. I call him out on it and he backs out of the trade.

Second, I had a trade set up with another new BA. He specifically asked for GM and White Chocolate for a beer he had. We agree upon it, I get no further communication from him then a couple days later says he tried white chocolate, wasn't his thing and wanted to swap it out for another GM. I told him I was tired oh his bait and switch BS and put him on my DNT list.

I don't let these sour my trading experience too much. I have great trading partners and really enjoy the people I have traded with. I just feel like all the newbies are out to suck as much out of a trade as possible and they are kind of shady about it. Jut my experience, but I feel like others have had similar experiences.

 

Seems to me that removing the month long waiting period has enabled/encouraged fly-by-night traders that just want to trade the latest lottery beer and then are gone into the sunset?

Maybe I am off here but I am seeing lots of trades from traders that joined days/hours earlier and the etiquette isn't followed at all. Snarky comments, auctions, one-upping other offers. One guy posted "I'll do a better ratio than the other guys" which is fine I guess if you want to be that guy, but not on the thread itself. That should be a private message in my mind.

Makes me wonder if some of these are duplicate accounts the way they don't seem to care at all.

 

I think with the new policy where you don't have to wait 30 days, too many people are jumping on to the trade forum without reading the rules or looking at other trades to see fair value in beers they have. One post was 1 Bourbon Country Brand Stout for 2 bourbon county coffee both 12oz bottles. the trade was way off and shipping one bottle in a trade isn't worth it.

I have traded with a few new people. Some are great and have already done a second trade. I did have one experience with a trader where I was looking for Sixpoint in trade for some firestone beers. It went ok in the beginning where I would send Velvet Merkin plus for 4pack resin and 6 global warmer and semi-harvest. I was asked if he could keep a global warmer to try and ok, then asks to keep a semi harvest and resin. So instead of 16 cans went down to 13. then asked ,e to send extras to make up for shipping cost. I already planned to send extras because I don't discuss that. I want to build trade relationships so I have someone to help me out for future releases. No extras I received.

On the other side, I traded for Carton beers and sent extras on my side. He was very appreciated and we are trading again. he was able to get regular coffee which in the ISO:FT forum a lot and could have easily traded it for something better. Not all new traders are bad, but the ones that are can make it hard for any new traders.

 

Old-school traders always say things were better "yesterday". Pretty sure they're all fishermen.

From my old-ass perspective, things have changed somewhat in the past year or so to more of a whale-style mentality, & getting the max for every beer you come across (thus the proliferation of "Bro, what's the value of this beer I just bought?" posts), but I personally haven't noticed a decline in civility or friendliness. There have always been jack-offs, trade bailers, & people who were just in it to annoy the crap out of honest traders. I started my own informal DNT list back in 2009, so I know there have been lousy folks since at least then!

That said, to me an important part of trading is taking the measure of the other party. If they continually put up posts threadshitting, being a pain in the collective ass, can't figure out what a verb is, or just rub me the wrong way, we're done. Trading is so trust-based, I'm not going to deal with anyone I get a bad vibe off of for any reason.

I could tell some stories about jackasses, including some active traders...but they were here yesterday, they'll be here tomorrow, & they're certainly here now.

 

This new crop of traders is pretty awful no doubt, but at the same time I've recently had some bad experience with traders who have been around long enough to know better. I think as a whole this hobby has become more about obsessing over the shiny new whale and maximizing some perceived value rather than trading great beers for great beers.

Veteran traders used to complain about 2012ers, and then 2013 was somehow worse, and then 2014 was the worst of the worst right? haha. That's just the way she goes boys.

 

Poor grammar is a dead giveaway! My extras increase in generosity when there's friendly communication on the other end. I've met some stellar "old man" traders on here and I've met others that won't give me the time of day. It works both ways here folks...

Be excellent to each other!

 

My theory is that new traders always seem to start off inexperienced and don't learn the proper etiquette or procedure for trading until they have a few more under their belt. So yes if you started in 2007 the new traders in 2012 seemed bad. And then the 2013 were worse, until you met the 2014 traders. Experience is good. Removing the 30 day waiting period has exacerbated this a bit, as they no longer get to peruse the forum for weeks before using it, but the problem has always been there. The ever expanding nature of the beer trading world means that you're going to see a larger variety of people trading too, it isn't just the 50 year-olds who have been travelling to Belgium for Cantillon since the mid 80s anymore.

 

I would agree with everything you said, traders old and traders new can be great or they can be terrible. The only thing I see that has changed is that removing waiting period seems to have increased the amount of win at all cost/rude traders. To me it seems like having to wait a month before starting to trade seemed to weed out some of the d-bags and make people respect the right to trade just a little more?

 

From my understanding, the 30-day window was removed because the intent was to prevent people from getting right back in to trade with a new account after being banned. People can create 2 accounts, keep 1 dormant, and then use that when the other account is banned so the intent of the 30-day window can be circumvented thus useless.

I didn't know what to think of the removal much, didn't care 1 way or another, but it seems that this is one of the impacts. Legitimate people can sign up, not taking time to browse, learn before being able to trade. I'm inclined to ask for that 30-day window to be brought back because it sure doesn't hurt anyone and will only help.

To the question and comment at hand, yes, there seem to be a larger influx of people lacking basic communication etiquette or appreciation for the time you spent trying to help them. I had a similar experience about a year ago after writing a lengthy message only to get "So do you think I can trade X for Y?" when I explained at length already in the message (probably the TL;DR type of individual). Most of the time, poor etiquette new traders just don't respond. They read the message containing the exact offer, but no courtesy to respond. I don't have a personal DNT list, but was thinking of creating one, list the reason for each person, and make it public. But I then thought, nah, why waste any more time on it and just let it go.

 

I remember back in '05...

 

"You know, there was a time we'd take a guy like that out back and beat 'em with a hose"

 

This is unfortunately so very true. I heard this one more than one occasion lately: "I'm trying to get the most for this bottle." Hearing stuff like that just stops the trade dead in my eyes.

 

@JayORear - Don't you have anything else better to do?

 

Maybe it is time to ban trade value threads. Lately I think the floodgates have opened as people see these threads, then post their own. In the old days when trade value wasn't the impetus behind trading, these threads were taboo. Now this forum is littered with them.

 

I used to think they were useful, but I now 100% agree with this. If you are looking to trade some obscure beer and can't figure out the value then it's completely valid. If you are asking what the value of Huna is then you are just a lazy profiteer.

 

It used to be that trade threads would be:

I have (x) amount of (x) beer and I am looking to trade for (y) amount of (y) beer. Trade posts now are very vague in exact specifics which in essence turns out to be an auction with multiple people making offers.

 

Like a couple other "old timers" have mentioned, trading on this fine website tends to be cyclical. Each new wave of BA's and their trading trends tends to piss off or differ from the generation before. You'll see gents like me move away from mail trades and in my place are two newbs who know jack shit about what this lifestyle is really about. They read a thread on Pliny, think they're some sort of an expert and man, just gotta get their hands on some, stat.

Having said that, the best way to not only save the dollars but also make a real connection with other BA's is IP trades. I've found that when meeting someone in person and they've got to show their face, almost all traders are much more respectful and fair with their trade bait. You'd be surprised how many good people there are on this site just dying to meet up for a couple cold ones and swap some bottles.

But if mail trades are still givin' you the ol' half chub, and I've been there, then I highly recommend cultivating ongoing open trades with your best trader partners. Build not only your cellar, but more importantly, a true friendship built around something you both love. Beer.

 

@Todd

Can we do this? I'm tired of reading them...they only perpetuate the problem.

I'm fine with "completed trades for beer x" threads, but these new ones...not so much.