Whippersnappers (Old Man Rant)

Dare I say, increase the moderation for the random threads in this section. If all the information for a beer appears to be laid out, lock it up and keep it for reference. Don't let the value threads run on and on. But, please, please, please, do not get rid of comments in the actual trade section. I can't tell you how many times comments on posts have helped myself and others. Personally, I think it outweighs the bad comments.

That's my take on it. I think the helpful comments outweigh the useless comments. I'll say it again, "Don't let the bickering and self-serving people ruin a great source of information!!!" There are a bunch of BAs that I listen to and love seeing their comments on specific beers. I trust their opinions. This is a community. We all know there are good and bad members. I don't want my good member's comments taken away from my viewing pleasure!!!

 

This is spot on in my book. I've noticed a trend in the "top" traders with registered trades on the trading forum page. Rarely do I see any of them chime in on other peoples ISO/FT's. I guess thats why they are GREAT traders. If they do, its value orientated. I can't recall any of them bringing "homerism", unless its an obvious " troll" post looking to trade bud light for KBBS. As far as getting ripped off, somebody posted before in which I totally agree, that if you do trade $4$ this will NEVER happen at least from a monetary point of view. You don't have to know crap about beer to figure that out. Again, opinions are opinions, if you feel something is off, BM the person your thoughts in PRIVATE. Posting on the boards for all to see with so many people can sway a trade one way or the other. Too many homers protecting their beer or devaluing others. I do agree that "closing" out a beer trade would definitely help for reference only. Some people could lie and say closed, when it never happened. So this info would have to be taken with a grain of salt. Also, just because somebody references (1) trade as an example, doesn't mean its the norm. Heck, I'd love to try KBBS, but that will never happen. If I could get (2) bottles, I'd drink one and give one away on the boards. Then the trade value would go down because they can reference the freebie and put a halt to all this #winning" nowadays. I think the mods have better things to do with their time than policing the threadshitting comments in the trade forums. Do away with the comments, so they can enjoy the site as well.

 

Excellent! I have a Chocolate Rain that I'd be happy to swap you $4$ for a few VSB, then.


(Laugh, but I had a couple of offers like this for NG Wild Peach when it came out last summer.)

 

Increase in moderation is the last thing this site needs. Everything else you said is cool though.

 

So a question for the mods...I think there are times when we self police and see someone post in ISO:FT that is either a bad trader, owes a BIF box etc (haven't noticed this as much in the past couple months). If the change is made to close off comments on the ISO:FT board would we have the option of BMing you to link their bad trader thread to their post?

 

Well since @Todd, mods and staff are keeping up with this thread for ideas I'll throw in my worthless opinion. I've been trying to think of a perfect solution all day and haven't come up with shit because I don't think one exists. As with most changes you make on this site you will inevitably make some happy and piss off others. There are decent arguments to both sides and while it's obvious which way I lean maybe a compromise of sorts wouldn't be a bad way to go.

Nothing ground breaking here but what about banning trade value and/or what's my beer worth threads and keeping comments on ISO's open? Most people who are in favor of trade value threads AND comments on ISO's admitted they get most of the info they are looking for in the ISO comments and that appears to be the thing they are most adamant about keeping.

Speaking for myself, I don't mind comments so much as long as it's not "hook this guy up, great trader" because really who is going to say "oh, some stranger said this is a great guy so I'll go ahead and make the trade even if I really don't want to"? (Sorry I digress). So while I do think most comments (information) in ISO's that are perceived as being helpful (ie bottle numbers, price, etc) can be found elsewhere with little effort I understand why some people want the comments to stay for that purpose provided it doesn't turn into a shit show which is where you guys come in.

I understand you guys would like to do as little moderating as possible and focus your time or thoughts elsewhere but it's something that will never go away completely but there may be ways alleviate it. I believe it's been mentioned by more than one mod how much moderating the trade value threads require because it becomes a region vs region cluster f. By doing away with those threads, would it cut back that much mod'ing to make it beneficial for you guys? Obviously you would still have to mod the ISO comments but maybe it would lighten your work load enough to make you happy, keep the pro ISO comment people happy and keep the anti comment people happy because you would be able to moderate the ISO's more effectively and prevent the comments from turning into a regional pimp and value protector fest (which is what I think most of us anti ISO comment people dislike the most about being able to comment).

Just another random thought.

 

I don't normally do blind trades with anyone other than established trade partners but did one once with a guy based on the "great guy" comments posted in the thread. I had what he was looking for and I just told him to send whatever he felt like back to me. I may not have done that sans the glowing comments from previous traders...he is now a regular trade partner as well

 

I'm glad it worked out for you, seriously. I'm sure 99% of the people who get those comments are great people to trade with and I always appreciate it when people say that about me but I think it's pointless. If someone wants to trade with me, I would want them to trade with me because they are interested in the trade itself not because someone said to "hook me up".

Likewise, there have been some of the same people I see with those comments and while I'm sure they're true, Im not going to trade with them for beers posted in their FT if Im not interested just because a few strangers on BA encouraged us to.

I think most people do it as more of a cyber high give or shout out to their buddy...it just gets annoying as hell and serves very little purpose in most cases. For those supporters of keeping ISO's open for commentary, the "hook him up bro, great trader right here" posts don't help your cause. Pimping out breweries and beers is bad enough, pimping out traders isn't far off.

I know, I know...it's said in good spirit but sorry it's just been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now, lol.

 

yes of course...you could also report questionable posts (the preferred option) with a comment explaing why you reported it.

this is pretty close to what i would like to see.

i am completely on board with banning the value threads as well as "great trader" comments. if you're doing. due diligences, you should be checking references/feedback and asking past traders questions if you aren't sure about details.

remember: trade at your own risk. we try to provide safeguards and are open to suggestins for improvements, but no system is foolproof.

regarding comments on ISOs, i'd prefer to see them limited/restricted to useful (yeah, yeah, always subject to interpretation, i know) ones that provide constructive criticism.

for example, "i got a similar deal (post details) done, so i think you're close or may need to add a little (include a suggested add)" or "i don't think this will work out b/c i did this deal" or "this may not work b/c of distribution or Venn diagram issues"...basically, provide some rational jistification for your response positive or negative. sure, it would require effort, but engagment and self policing are what wewould all prefer. srsly, do you want nastygrams from me?

other useful info could include bottle counts, release dates, format/size, asking for vintage info, asking if a beer is in distro in a certain area, etc...that's obviously not all inclusive.

we can't make rules to cover *everything* but i think you'll all get the idea. heck, most of you can't manage to read your banners...

tl;dnr: make it useful and constuctive.

we want to encourage trading and new traders to get into the hobby and provide a more or less level field for all traders. sure some have more disposable income than others. that shouldn't keep people from trading.

whalez bro aren't the only thing worth trading for. locals for locals are great too. you just need to take a step back sometimes.

respect each other.

nasty responses and creating regional and/or small group cliques aren't helpful. there are plenty of other options on the net if that's your game.

 

Whether we like it or not, beer value (I hate this word in this context) is a thing. With this said, there has to be some avenue to discuss these questions such as:

- What does beer (x) take to get?
- Is this a fair trade, beer (x) for beer (y)?
- What are the bottle sizes, prices, limits and batches of beer (x)?
etc,etc,etc,

I think that these questions/comments would be best left in the "Beer Trading Help" forum while limiting the ISO/FT forum to a classified section. Seems like comments in the ISO/FT forum do more harm than good, and the threadshitting is getting worse and worse with every limited release. Personally, when I post a ISO/FT, I don't want feedback in my thread, but currently I have no choice but to cross my fingers and hope that the trolls stay away...either send me a BM if interested, or give me silence.

Ultimately, a fair trade is one in which both parties are happy. It isn't my job or anybody's job to approve, disagree with or knock someone else's trade. If someone is unsure if they are getting a fair deal, they can either research "values" threads prior to posting an ISO/FT, OR create a trade specific question threads in the "Beer Trading Help" forum. Doing this would obviously clean up the ISO/FT forum, and relegate the discussions to an actual discussions forum (Beer Trading Talk & Help) This way you would only be opening up your trade for discussion if you ask for it...then you can blame yourself for the butthurt, instead of it being imposed on you.

 

I don't know if I count as a "whippersnapper" since I'm a mid 2013 guy but I lurked for a long time before joining and even once I created a profile I've listened way more than I've participated or traded (under 10 completed trades through BA).

The only thing I'll add is if forum changes are being considered I'd try to stick to the 80/20 rule... Try to have rules for 80% of the situations out there and handle the other 20% as it comes up. It always gives me pause if reactionary response leads to swooping changes. I don't think we want people scared to ask questions or participate in a conversation because there is a long list of restrictions. Just my two cents...

I love this place! Thanks to everyone for participating. Cheers!

 

WARNING: this could take a lot of back end work - and it's probably been brought up before, but

What if when you accepted a trade through the Feedback system, you could also select which beers were agreed upon?

Just like making a trade through fantasy sports teams...
You'd probably have to make everyone "select" which beers they have on their roster (for trade) - but that's easy enough for users to do - and all beers are already profiled on here.

This would do many things, but a couple of the most useful:

1. Would make trades much more clear-cut and helpful for communication.
2. Would open up a world of information.
3. Could be used for a database of trade values and what has "gotten done". (I'd love to see all the great BAs "RUINING" values with the trading partner swaps)
4. Could expose the profiteers and the true BAs (you know, for science!)

Too much work? Probably, but it's Friday and I need a beer.

 

I've thought about the same thing, would potentially be a huge help but at the same time it is obviously a massive amount of work. Also, trades sometimes include things not listed on BA, like glassware for beer, meads, ciders, bourbon, or homebrew, which would screw up the system somewhat.

A second problem is that not everyone wants to make the details of every trade public. For example someone with a super rare, ultra sought after beer who trades it to a long-term trading partner may not want to receive 50+ messages from people asking if he's got another for trade.

Third, open ended trades like "I want three bottles from that list you showed me, surprise me!" or long-term hookup agreements like "Let me know what kind of beers you want from this brewery as they come out and I'll be sure to send them your way." wouldn't be possible with the system. Again I like the idea in theory, but there are too many little problems like that which could arise.

 

I'm in the camp that would like to see discussions continue in both the iso threads & the trade help 'value' threads. I've found both to be helpful. Bring in an area of sucky distribution there's so much beer knowledge I lack. I think many people asking about 'value' are as concerned with being fair to the person they're trading with as they are with maximizing value.

Call me a cynic but the hue & cry over maximizing value often seems to involve situations where people have failed to acquire some highly sought after flavor of the day or would like to (softly) dictate favorable trade terms for those madly desired insta-whalz. To that extent a whole buncha people are 'maximizing value'. I would absolutely LOVE to do $4$ trades giving up my Gray Monday or BVDL for KBBS or VSB.

I truly dislike the regionalism rampant in so many threads. I've had terrific experiences trading throughout the country. I've found exceptionally helpful, generous, friendly people in all regions. Despite that, I prefer a free exchange of ideas & am willing to traverse the rough spots to keep that.

Something that I find invaluable is seeing how people conduct themselves in the absence of rules & restrictions. Those prone to tantrums, melt downs, nasty or bullying behavior are people I'd rather avoid trading with. *shrug* Problems will arise & when they do I want to work with someone who seeks reasonable solutions, not someone who will act out, get toxic or become sooo annoying I want to spit.

 

I find it's easy to tell which this is by which side they're asking about; if they're asking "what will it take me to land x" then you're right; if they're asking "what can I land with y" then not so much.

 

As a more general version of this, when those that speak up for someone are people I know, even if I don't know the trader themselves, that makes me more comfortable. It's one thing to see a familiar name in their trade history, it's another entirely for them to go out of their way to speak up for the person.

@cfh64

 

Fair enough, still annoys me though

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa eaaaaaaaaasy now!

I did good today, shoved a sock in my mouth, didn't "tell" on anyone and let the mods do their job which I'm glad they did because I was stewing. Suddenly it was gone and so were my undesirable emotions, lol. Well done mods and thank you.