Märican Biere Bought and Drunk...

Oops, slight edit. I meant to say, "It just does NOT work as well."

And please, don't credit me, while drinking it, the thought popped in my head, and I remembered (or think I remembered) @Domingo saying this.

As a preview of how your side by side may turn out....

Torpedo/Celebration: 4.15 review average

Hop Hunter: 4.11 review average

Hoppy Lager: 3.94 review average

 

Almost a year ago to the day, good to know all the booze hasn't destroyed my memory!

 

It personally doesn’t surprise me that on BA IPAs are rated higher. BAs love the style of IPA.

On BA, lagers are the ugly step sisters of the beer world.

Even though an IPL is hoppy it is still an ugly step sister of being a lager.

Beers on BA are not rated blind; people know what they are drinking (e.g., a lager vs. an ale) when they perform their ratings.

Cheers!

 

Since you guys are on the topic of American brewed lagers, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Jack's Abby House lager. Per their website:
House Lager - Landbier
House Lager pulls inspiration from the numerous country lagers, or landbiers, found in Franconia. It's sweet and golden with a full malty body that comes from using a traditional German malt variety. A special beer for year-round enjoyment.

OG 13 Plato / IBUs 18 / ABV 5.4%

I had a bottle last week and I really enjoyed it. This is a style I wish more stateside breweries made. I cannot say it stands up to a true Franconian version as I've never been there and had a fresh version.

I can say this would be a staple for me if it was in 6 or 12 pack form factor.

 

Have not tried it. Would be interested to, though. I posted elsewhere that I would bet they are using the Weyermann Barke Pilsner malt here; I have brewed with some of Weyermann's new "heirloom" malts and have honestly been a bit disappointed. (And I am a huge Weyermann fan...and I'd still like to try this beer...)

 

From the previous page in this thread...

 

You beat me to it, shame on me for not seeing your post! Where are you finding Rothaus in MA? I have a store in Newburyport trying to bring it in, but the distributor is saying it's out of stock.

 

Only near Boston. I believe @Beric found it in Boston proper. I’ve seen it at two stores in Somerville.

Redstone Liquors in Stoneham isn’t far away, and carrries all kinds of rare goodies, but they haven’t received it yet either. One of the shops in Somerville I specifically requested it before the New Year, so maybe that had something to do with it?

 

Couldn't this logic also explain why they're rated higher on the whole, than say, pilsners or Helles? Indicating that IPLs are rated higher than most lagers because they're hoppy, and the label has the words, "India Pale" in the name?

 

You got me.

What I do know is that the IPA style is very, very popular with BAs.

How BAs feel about the 'new' beer style of IPL, I really do not know.

Cheers!

 

I feel like you are being intentionally disingenuous here. Anytime "the best lagers" are mentioned here on BA, a huge number mention Jack's Abby IPLs. Did you somehow miss that fact?

 

Jack’s Abby is a localized brewery (distributed in only 3 states).

The IPL category is a very, very small category as compared to other beers styles (e.g., IPA, DIPA, etc.).

I do not think that the minority of folks who have Jack’s Abby beer available to them represent the broader BA community. The folks who drink Sierra Nevada Torpedo, Stone IPA, Firestone Walker Union Jack, etc. are representative of the broader BA community.

Cheers!

 

FWIW, I'm increasingly tending to fall in w/ @Domingo, @AlcahueteJ, and others that it's an awfully tricky proposition to craft a well-balanced, hoppy lager. Not saying it can't be done, just that it's tricky. As others have stated, I can't help but feel that lager yeast, in concert with heavy hopping, can create an overly clean, overly thin, and ultimately harsh flavor profile.

Hoponious pulls it off. I actually think the SN version does it a little better. But veering into the Double IPL category, it's been rare that I find something that isn't excessively bracing and shrill. Kiwi Rising is one of the highest rated Double IPLs, and I found it asprin-bitter and solventy-clean. Mass Rising was a touch "better", but still not something I'd reach for.

Ironically, Double IPAs, noted for their extreme hoppiness, often come across much more balanced to me. Take Stone's Ruination, whose name indicates its intended effect. And yet, that brew, to my palate, has a very noticeable sweet malt core, more than able to handle the heavy use of hops. I can think of many others like it. As for lagers, though, I think it's rare that the such use of hops works as effectively.

 

I guess my point was, lager yeasts may not be the best choice for showcasing hops. Even though many BAs may frown upon lagers as a whole, and wouldn't know a great Helles from a hole in the ground, they know what tastes good to them.

The ratings aren't performed blind, but BAs still do rate partially on taste (I'm sure bias plays a part too). Regular pale ales on the whole aren't rated as high as the far hoppier double IPAs, but somehow Zombie Dust climbed up to #15 on the top 250, attaining a lofty 4.6 rating. Why? Because it tastes just as good as some of those top double IPAs.

Kiwi Rising (the top hoppy lager on this website) is only a 4.26. Jack's Abby is local to me, and I haven't had trouble obtaining Heady Topper (the top IPA), so I've drank both on multiple occasions. Kiwi Rising doesn't even come close to the majority of my favorite IPA/double IPAs, never mind Heady Topper.

The large majority of this website may not be fond of lagers, but they know their hops, and they know which beers that are heavy handed in them are appealing to their palates. It's like the "session IPA" or even the black IPA (which Sixpoint said is dying out), both which are rated much lower than your standard IPA. They're not labeled lagers, yet the ratings are much lower. One could argue using less malt to drop the ABV, or using darker malts like in the black IPA, simply doesn't yield a superior product.

 

Pliny the Elder, Heady Topper, and the Hill Farmstead beers (among many, many others) are also produced by localized breweries and only distributed in a limited number of states.

Do you have a similarly difficult time believing that the praise those beers receive from the relatively small (say, in relation to those who can get SN, Stone, FW, etc.) number of folks that manage to obtain them is representative of the broader BA community?

 

Ironically, Double IPAs, noted for their extreme hoppiness, often come across much more balanced to me. Take Stone's Ruination, whose name indicates its intended effect. And yet, that brew, to my palate, has a very noticeable sweet malt core, more than able to handle the heavy use of hops.” Yes, a DIPA will be more balanced. It is a combination of the increased malt load and the fact that ale yeast are not the most attenuating yeast strains; lager yeast strains are highly attenuative.

“As for lagers, though, I think it's rare that the such use of hops works as effectively.” I have only consumed ‘regular’ IPLs but I could envision that the highly attenuative nature of lager yeasts may not be inviting for a Double IPL; just a guess.

Cheers!

 

Same here -- almost used the phrase "overly attenuated" for IPLs/DIPLs. I think IPLs generally tend to teeter right on the edge of over-attenuation + heavy hopping to create overly shrill, harsh palate. They can sometimes pull it off, but it's tough, and they're not the kind of brew I'd want to down a lot of (my personal aversion to downing lots of brew notwithstanding ) DIPLs, in my experience thus far, almost never pull it off. I actually thought Founders Dissenter kinda/sorta did it, but only because they relied on more savory hop varities, with those oniony/garlicky notes managing to tamp down the shrillness a bit.

 

@JackHorzempa I'm surprised you didn't take this as an opportunity to notice we do agree about one thing, and that I was previously wrong when I said all lager characteristics are buried in the hop profile of an IPL.

I guess it took "Hoppy Lager" for me to notice!

 

I personally have only had a handful of IPL beers. Off the top of my head Jack’s Abby Hoponius Union, Sam Adams Double Agent IPL, Straub IPL, maybe a couple of others?

I have been ‘lucky’ that I have enjoyed drinking every brand of IPL that I have had so far. The IPL style is not popular (as in not a lot of them are being brewed). I actually wonder whether the IPL style will ever take off. I have yet to see a Double IPL so I have not tried any yet.

Cheers!

 

“…I was previously wrong when I said all lager characteristics are buried in the hop profile of an IPL.”

I did indeed notice that but I thought it would be more appropriate and respectful to simply not comment.

Now that we are discussing it permit me to opine: beer appreciation is a journey, enjoy the ride!!

Cheers!