Why doesn't Biere de Garde get any love?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Hodgson, Feb 17, 2015.

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  1. lillitnn92

    lillitnn92 Initiate (0) Aug 22, 2009 Virginia

    Biere De Gardes have been more miss than hit with me. De Gardes are usually weird tasting on my palate an usually are off putting. Maybe only had a handful of ones that I would drink again.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Every time the topic of Bière de Garde comes up there is always a lot of confusion about the Bière de Garde style.

    The ‘original’ Bière de Garde beers were Farmhouse Ales so the farmer brewers would brew with ingredients that were readily available to them. It would be expected that Farmer Jean would brew his Bière de Garde differently than Farmer Pierre.

    The Bière de Garde style is described in the BJCP style guidelines and the Brewers Association style guidelines (copied below).

    The aspects that define the Bière de Garde style (as per the guidelines) are: malt forward, a substantial final gravity and typically a neutral yeast character. These aspects very much distinguish a Biere de Garde from a Saison.

    There is a craft brewer near me by the name of Scott Morrison who brews excellent Biere de Garde style beers; he was won numerous GABF medals for his beers brewed at different breweries over the years. His most recent medal was for 2014: Bronze: Barren Hill Biere De Extra, Barren Hill Tavern and Brewery, Lafayette Hill, PA.

    I had the pleasure to drink many of Scott’s Biere de Garde beers including the recent Biere De Extra and it was indeed an excellent rendition: malt forward with lots of body; not too much hop character and very neutral from a fermentation perspective.

    Cheers!

    French-Style Bière de Garde

    Beers in this category are light amber to chestnut brown/red in color. This style of beer is characterized by a toasted malt aroma and slight malt sweetness in flavor. They are light to medium in body. Hop bitterness is low to medium. Noble-type hop aromas and flavors should be low to medium. Fruity esters can be light to medium in intensity. Flavor of alcohol is evident. Earthy, cellar-like, musty aromas are okay. Diacetyl should not be perceived but chill haze is okay. Often bottle conditioned with some yeast character. French-Style Bière de Garde may have Brettanomyces characters that are slightly acidity, fruity, horsey, goaty and/or leather-like.

    Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.060-1.080 (15-19.5 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.024 (3-6 ºPlato) ● Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 3.5-6.3% (4.5-8%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 20-30 ● Color SRM (EBC) 7-16 (14-32 EBC)”
     
  3. Hodgson

    Hodgson Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2014 Canada (ON)


    One of the things I noticed when tasting a lot of the French "originals" (i.e. common in the 80's-90's), was a musty note. It didn't seem the result of overage and I noticed it in many, not all, beers on a number of repeated trips to Lille and France in general.

    A Pas-de-Calais brewer told me that some breweries still used vessels at the time that were difficult to clean and he suspected the taste came from micro-organisms lurking in hard to reach corners of fermenting tanks or exposed wood where still used.

    I'd think today this problem is much less given the prevalence of cylindro-conicals and other stainless equipment, but it's interesting when you said "weird" because it reminded me of that "taste" I remembered. It wasn't just me, I distinctly recall one of Jackson's books mentioned it and that he considered it a characteristic of garde beers, but once again, some not all.
     
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  4. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Read Farmhouse ales By Paul Markowski

    page 25:
    Perhaps no other family of beers can frustrate the style police like farmhouse ales....Its virtually impossible to squeeze either one into a neat, narrow definition.

    he is talking about both BDG and Saisons...

    one needs either a time a machine (LOL) and or you can visit the region now. It has changed, one can brew your own version and you be right and wrong....the big question geting the yeast right for each micro region etc. etc.

    So any American version is just that a clone, and why the lack of love its the lack of a standard maybe? no disrepect to BJCP, but its just a narrow range or suggestion:

    who knows why folks do not love the,, it seems to me most younger newer craft lovers, enjoy hop bombs....

    I love them since the first one I had in the 1970's, but you had to go there to get 1.
     
    birdman200 likes this.
  5. Hodgson

    Hodgson Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2014 Canada (ON)

    I agree that there is no standard, despite the definitions that have been attempted. This surely is because the modern gardes, the ones that appeared since Jackson first drew attention to them, are a rather wide-ranging bunch. Some were warm-fermented, some not (usually not for the well-distributed ones). Some were blonde, amber, brown, black. Some spicy in a Belgian way, some more English, and using a wide range of hops. When I visited local breweries in Pas de Calais and the Nord in the 90's, I was told Northern Brewer was typical but I remember hearing too that plenty of classic lager hops were used as well as Goldings and other English types. The 1800's gardes in Lille seem to have been all-malt or mostly so, very long boiled in the kettle, moderately hopped, aged 6-8 months (in wood of course), and showing good clarity from the long repose.
     
    azorie likes this.
  6. Greywulfken

    Greywulfken Grand Pooh-Bah (5,815) Aug 25, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I really dug 3 Monts, but admittedly have only gone back to it once... :astonished:
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    yep they are the most wide ranging "style" there is, only the region ties them together. IMHO.
    the book I referenced does a great job of talking about that.

    btw the French of course and the Belgians knew about them way before sir Jackson wrote about them...at least those in the area that I have stayed with and talked too over the years since about 1974 or so.
     
  8. miamichael2

    miamichael2 Zealot (520) Dec 2, 2009 Florida
    Trader

    I'm going to Belgium for about a week, and while in the western region, I want to spend some time in the neighboring French area to try some authentic Biere de Gardes; likely will spend an afternoon in Lille and surrounding area. Any recommendations on possible places to visit in the area, particularly a brewery, that would be a great spot to have some BdG?
     
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  9. StartedwithSAM

    StartedwithSAM Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2015 Virginia

    I'm definitely interested and would like to try a solid representation of the style.
     
  10. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,191) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    She's a winner them gardes... at times

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  11. Dweedlebug

    Dweedlebug Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I can't speak for other BDG's but Ommegang's Biere D'Hougoumont has a crazy price around here. It's runs about $24 for a 750ml bottle here. Sorry, but I'm not paying that price when I can get Hennepin for $10.
     
  12. birdman200

    birdman200 Initiate (0) Jul 6, 2010 Massachusetts

    Agreed, just read Farmhouse Ales by Phil (not Paul) Markowski.

    He's the Brewmaster @ Two Roads with decades of experience, particularly in French/Belgian farmhouse ales. The book is a short read, and breaks down both styles. Interesting that many BDGs are fermented with lager strains, because the easy drinking German lagers were popular many years ago in France, and some brewers only had access to those neutral, clean yeast strains.

    In terms of saisons, he makes it very clear that if you ask 10 brewers about what they think a saison should taste like, what the alcohol parameters should be, etc, you'll get 10 different answers.

    TL;DR: read Phil Markowski's book.
     
  13. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I read this book last month and agree one of the main points was that these styles can be vastly different and still be regarded as interpretations of BDG. The book actually got quite repetitive, but did give a good breakdown n the history and how various producers have interpreted the style for their brews.
     
  14. Relik

    Relik Zealot (603) Apr 20, 2011 Canada (NS)

    not sure "farmhouse" and BdG are entirely the same. Feild Mouse is more of a rustic(more malt varitiy) saison than say a 3 monts.
     
  15. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    I need to read it again but I remember finishing it and thinking I had a pretty good handle on saisons, but not bieres de garde...this is not a criticism of the book, but of my lack of comprehension and also the confusing dissimilarity of the few bieres de garde I had experienced at that time.
     
  16. Mike_Aguirre

    Mike_Aguirre Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2015 Mexico

    I´ve never had one, wish I get some soon to increase my beer style resume.
     
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