Bad Trader: Cestlavie

Lol, the guy is still living and breathing, I wasn't that bad. Everything was handled lawfully he just got more than what he ever expected.

 

@cfh64, I'm very interested to hear this story.

 

I want to hear this story!!!!

 

After that tease you HAVE to tell us the story. Change names to protect the innocent...or guilty.

 

it's documented in the trading forum...a little searching around and you'll find it.

(too lazy to do so and link it here)

 

sorry to hear about this, Ryan. i believe i did a trade with Barry last year that was smooth, so this is pretty shitty. i saw him comment on a recent De Garde facebook post, so maybe calling him out on there would get a fire lit under his ass.

 

This is really unfortunate. It is not often you see such solid people get screwed over here on BA. Ryan is one of the best and most obliging traders I've dealt with in nearly 10 years of shipping boxes.

What is extremely fucked, is the pretense of this mess. The best thing about trading with great people and building relationships is the ability to ship out a box of sought-after beers (like the ones Ryan shipped) and knowing the generosity will happily be reciprocated.

My hunch this time is @cestlavie got spooked by the amazing box @Kurmaraja sent and then let so much time pass that NOW he feels like there is no way out of it. But there is ALWAYS a way out of it.

Back when I began trading one of the "Uber-Traders" strung me along for close to two years. He was embarrassed he let things go for so long. The guy finally came through with flying colors and a porch bomb. Would I trade with him again, sure.. If he shipped first.

Hopefully Barry makes things right.

Also, I would suggest @F2brewers and/or other mods don't lay the ban-hammer on @cestlavie . Perhaps the only way this will resolve itself is if he is allowed to continue and the public shaming erodes his will. Banning him will do nothing to get Ryan his beer. To protect other traders, perhaps a mod could add a "bad trade" to his profile that explains this and links to this thread... Just sayin'.

 

@cestlavie needs *at least* respond with his side of the story.

if he doesn't, he will be banned. that's all there is to it. no amount of support from other members will change that.

as noted above, there may be additional public shaming that will help protect other traders and diminish his ability to trade here ever again.

he's already got some negative feedback from his last trade with @MCMASTERSANCHEZ which doesn't bode well.

what i do find interesting is the positive feedback that @Kurmaraja left for him in March 2014. was that trade before or after the one we're discussing in this thread?

 

Sent Barry a message, hopefully this gets resolved.

 

thanks.

at least one other feedback also mentions less than stellar communication too.

 

Manup Barry, show your face here and get the man the beer you owe him or better yet send him $280!

 

Tried in vain to find it...

 

I live in Northwest Indiana but work in Chicago. We will have to grab a drink sometime maybe

 

That was me. It was the first trade I did where I was genuinely worried about it turning into a bad trade. I sent @MCMASTERSANCHEZ a detailed explanation of what happened a few months back, I'll track that down and post it here. Essentially he strung me along for weeks always saying he'd ship out next Monday and it never happened until several weeks down the line.

Ultimately though the extras he gave me were just so damn good I couldn't give him anything but positive feedback.

 

Here's my story of what happened with @cestlavie

We set up a trade December 2013, I'd give him some Prairie Bombs and Prairie Noirs when they get released and he'd send me a King Henry and a Rose de Gambrinus. Wet set it up, locked it down, and I was expecting the Noirs would be released in a few weeks. I secured the Prairie Noir in early January, and asked him if he'd be interested in expansion. I never heard back from him. Label approval ended up holding the Vanilla and Coffee Noir up until late February. I messaged him asking if he was still interested, and didn't initially hear back. Two days later I asked again and he said yes. He then asked if I wanted to expand by offering up my bottles of MvB and CdT from Jester King which were just a few weeks away from release, as well as La Vie en Rose. From this point onward communication was pretty good, we worked out the details there, I got some Marius Peach and Plum, as well as a Tired Hands Emptiness is Eternal. He also planned on sending a Framboise Noir from AC Golden, but it was going to be a while because someone was lolly gagging to send him his bottles. Negotiations on the terms of the trade ended with him including a surprise in addition to the agreed upon bottles above. This was about mid March. I shipped out March 18th, and he didn't accept my trade request until a day or two later.

On March 21st the box was delivered. He told me the Framboise Noir hadn't yet arrived, but if it hadn't gotten there by the following Monday he'd ship out to me without it and send a second box when it did arrive. That Monday I hadn't heard anything from him, so I asked him what was up. Nothing. Two days later I follow up again, he responds saying he's going out of town for a few days but that the Framboise Noir still hadn't arrived. On March 31st I messaged him again asking if he was planning on shipping out, and nothing. The following day I asked him to respond to my proposal of possibly subbing out the Framboise Noir for something else.

On April 1st he told me that the Framboise Noir was apparently being shipped out that week, and that he'd send the first box without it the following day. I asked if he'd do that and heard nothing. On April 4th I asked again if he planned to ship out Noir-less and he got back to me on April 5th telling me that the Framboise Noir had arrived, and he would ship out the whole box Monday.

On Monday I ask if he's shipped out and hear nothing. I'm getting very anxious at this point. The next day (April 8th now) he says he shipped out the day before but for some reason his message to me hadn't sent. He gave me the tracking number. I then asked him what was taking so long to give me feedback on the trade, and didn't get an answer.

His box to me arrived on April 11th, and he'd filled a 12 bottle shipper with everything I'd asked for, and everything else I'd discussed as possibilities as extras. De Gardes as extras. Tired Hands Emptiness series as extras.

I was prepared to give him negative feedback or at least *okay* feedback, but the box was just so good I couldn't do that. It was clear he tried to make up for his behavior throughout the trade with fantastic extras. So I gave him positive feedback with the bad communication caveat. He gave me feedback shortly afterward.

In total the trade was this:

On my side:
Bomb x3 (Two pink wax one Orange wax)
Prairie Noir
Prairie Coffee Noir
Prairie Vanilla Noir
MvB
CdT
La vie en Rose
Ambree
Ol Oi as an extra
Lakewood Bourbon Barrel Temptress as an extra

On his side:
King Henry
Rose de Gambrinus
AC Golden Framboise Noir
Back into the Emptiness
Marius Peach
Marius Plum
Surprise bottle (Ended up being The Emptiness is Eternal)
Surprise bottle (Ended up being Cisco Monomoy Kriek)
De Garde Loak as an extra
De Garde Vin Lee as an extra
Captain Lawrence Hops and Roses as an extra
Great South Bay Snozberry Stout as an extra

So obviously I was very happy with the final outcome of the trade, even if I got severely worried about ever getting those bottles. I didn't rule out trading with him again but would have required him to ship first next time.

 

Yeah, no wonder you didn't leave him negative feedback - you totally won that deal.

3-4 months of delays and terrible communications and you still gave him positive feedback, and only said "Communication could have been better, but he made up for it with perhaps the best box ever to hit my porch. He blew my mind with extras!"

If people don't use the system properly, it doesn't work. This kind of feedback doesn't help other traders - you should have said that he strung you along for 4 months and was a terrible communicator, not "communication could have been better."

 

Yea I was reluctant to leave negative feedback because our trade involved a king henry as well and didn't want to lose the trade but after so many months of no communication I ad to just cut my losses. Now I just fear that he will leave negative feedback out of spite and ruin my good record