BeerAdvocate Trading Petition...

As much as I don't like it, it is their beer and they can do what they want with it.

Start a new petition and see who "signs" it.

 

I think that small close knit community of BA traders is now gone. Its just much larger now. I love and respect all of the "locals for locals" and "limiteds for limiteds" threads, but they just seem to get lost in the ocean of 'limiteds for wales" threads. I'm afraid the BA of the past is simply gone.

BA seems to be all about maximizing profits now...

 

Give it another 6mos to a year. I think we'll see a high water mark (getting close imo) and be left with the semi-solid community I knew when I joined.

 

Problem is, the guy who wrote that was just as sick of that state of the forums as you guys are right now. Anyone smell too much of "back in my day"?

Will add, I see nothing wrong with retrading a beer you got in a trade. Actually, I don't even see anything wrong with selling, as long as you didn't invent a sob story for someone to be generous to you.

 

I'm not at all concerned with what someone does with the beer I traded them aside from rare exceptions (I really hook someone up...a previous trade partner for instance), but even then I'm not going to from a lynch mob over it (and I believe that would be a common belief in the trading community today).

I think what davey and I are referring to is the "new crop"/massive influx of BA users who are only interested in profiting off of what is supposed to be a fun hobby. Could it just be that '09's "crop" were re-traders and '12's crop are "profiteers"? Possibly, but I'm more inclined to believe that this new crop is an offshoot of the current craft-beer explosion.

Just one example: I came home from DLD this year (with 2 friends...both BAs) carrying 12 DLs and 3 BA DL variants. When my Pops came out to greet us he asked if we planned on selling our $1500 (eBay) worth of beer. He recoiled in horror when we replied that we planned on drinking every last drop. *He also wanted to strangle me when I came back from the DLD tix sales at the FFF brewpub and proceeded to give the two extra tix ($500 worth according to him) at cost ($15 each) to BAs who said they needed them. ** He was doubly aghast when he learned that we planned on opening our BA DL variants at a tasting in order to be able to sample nearly every variant made. (which was awesome btw)

If a 50+ year-old man is knowledgeable about certain craft beer's eBay value, then I can't help but believe that there is a significant population out there that knows they can profit off of the current popularity of craft beer. I know I'm just giving eBay examples here, but think about it with regards to the trading community (more than I care to ramble).

Final point: I think a high water mark is on its way and we will see a significant decrease in the number "profiteer" types as craft beer caves in on itself over the next year or so, and (as stated above) we will be left with a semi-stable group of traders/beer geeks who really do care about the hobby/craft beer as a whole.

*End Apocalypse Cow/Apollo fueled essay*

 

I do see what you're saying and I agree.

Don't be so sure about join dates and attitudes, hell you're a late 2010 yourself. My remark is not to belittle you or anyone else; on the contrary you might be surprised that a lot of "respected"/"veteran"/"visible"/"audible" members are much tougher to deal with than the so called "profiteering noobs". More traders and a higher interest in trading carries a higher risk but beyond that there are a few (possibly obvious) things that I would like to bring to the attention:
- A sizable proportion tries to maximize their returns regardless of whether they are at 10+ or 50+ or 200+ trades, and regardless of their join dates.
- I have examples of traders who think of themselves as the best thing to have happened to the community while they are in fact sub par. If someone goes around tooting their own horn, watch out for a case of unrealistic expectations.
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Bottomline being, go easy on the guy who joined two months ago. If you have your doubts, no one is forcing you to trade.
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If you don't like seeing your beer on the bay, don't trade those kinds of beers to people you don't completely trust.

 

As I stated in my post...I'm not "sure" about join dates and attitudes (bring something like this up and someone with an earlier join date ((6mos older than me)) will come after you), but I can say with conviction that I believe I've contributed (albeit marginally in scope) in a positive way to BA. (does this mean you won't trade with me? ) I'll go on to say that I've had numerous awesome trades with BAs that had later join-dates (and many more trades) than me, but that is far and away from the point/pissing contest.

I believe that there may be a few "vets" that are stingy traders (some of these may be early join dates that have just recently become active, and some may be fueled by cynicism brought on my the current state of affairs), but on the whole I would still emphasize that (IMO) the "profiteering" trading style as a whole has flourished in correlation with the popularity of craft beer. Hell, starting on Monday (July 9th) through Saturday (July 14th) I'll take note of the join date of BAs posting in the ISO:FT forum (and subsequent comments generated--indicating a ludicrous trader offer) if it will help me prove my point (it probably won't...for reasons I don't wish to debate here). I really don't think that it's necessary though...anyone who has been around for the last two years can corroborate the explosive growth of membership/hits on BA alone with the rise in what would be viewed as "ridiculous" ISO:FTs.

 

Ah, nothing like an "in my day" thread. In all reality, the forums have been like this forever. I have been trading for close to 4 years, and the one thing that has drastically changed is the number of limited releases. Traders today are no more or less generous than they were 4 years ago. People were bitching about how the trading forums were going to shit back then, just as they do today. Same shit, different day.

 

This probably has a fair amount to do with it. It used to be feasible to trade for all of the new limited stuff that came out. I would pick up CCB stuff and send it to regular trade partners and I would get most of the fancy stuff that came out. Now, if I want something that my trading partners don't send me (such as, say, FMB), I have to weigh whether or not I want to use up one of the few bottles I have for trade. Bottle limits have gone down and the number of people descending on breweries for releases has increased dramatically. If I decide that an FMB isn't worth one of my Hunahpu's, then that's essentially profiteering on my part, albeit from a different perspective. In a way, it encourages other traders to maximize the value of their FMB, since people are no longer willing to send them what they want "just because."

 

Beyond the 'for profit' and re-traders and everything in between some people are just selfish assholes or snobbish jerks when it comes to trading. This will span beyond time..

fyi - I've always experienced good to great trades, have no complaints and have not been burned yet, so thanks to all those that do trade with the 'Share Beer' mentality.

 

What mikecharley said.People have been complaining about the terrible state of the forums & how 'you shoulda been here yesterday' since the day I joined 4 1/2 years ago.

That said, there has been a change within the last six months or so. It used to be easy to find some trader, somewhere, that would hook you up with a limited regional release fairly easily. For whatever reason, it's gotten more difficult to land these beers - no whales, just good limited releases - recently.

Oh well. There's enough good beer in my state that I haven't tried yet to keep me busy forever anyways.

 

I joined BA near the end of last year and have completed 40-50 successful trades, and have really enjoyed the process. I now have some "regular" trading partners in different pars of the country and I haven't had a hard time getting any beer I have wanted, except for maybe different DL Variants, Blacknotes, and harder to find Cantillons.

Most of my trades have been $4$ or I may give up slightly more, but that is not the norm.

I think all of the posts regarding profiteering and new traders suck is getting old.

Although I don't like the idea of someone ebaying a beer I traded to them, or waiting in line at a limited release only to ebay a beer for profit, I don't get my boxers in a bunch over it. At the end of the day I can't stop it so why worry about it.

Just like anything else in life there are selfish assholes and snobbish jerks on BA, but I try not to deal with them.

Sorry for the rant. Have a nice Sunday.

 

I agree with most of your post.

But, having been trading for years & having several excellent regular trading partners, the past several months are the first true change I've seen on the trading boards (though as I said, it's a standard complaint that arises like clockwork every few months).

- Locals trading used to be common. It still goes on all the time behind the scenes, but it's become suddenly rare to see such posts in the ISO:FT forum. People are going straight for Kate & eschewing good locals.
- Regional releases are tougher to get. Used to be that a Foothills or Ithaca or Alpine special release wasn't tough to land if you didn't have a "guy" on the ground in the area. Take a gander down the boards sometime. You could almost copy the lists of "ISO" on so many posts: Rare, Black Note, etc. for stouts & 3F, Cantillion, etc. for sours. Everyone wants to leverage their regional for top-flight beers. And of course that's their right, & I've certainly done the same, but it seems it's suddenly the norm.
- Jerks. Yeah, there have always been & will always be jerks. But I had a couple encounters over the past two weeks with guys who've exhibited behavior I've never seen around here before. Maybe it's an anomaly, but damn, really? I go out of my way to try to treat my trading partners well, whether it's trade one or ten with them. I'd like to spit in the Rarities of both these guys. But it's more than made up for by all the incredibly generous people around here.

New traders are the lifeblood that keeps the forum going - you won't see me or most people bashing them. But you also have to understand that beer has reached the point of baseball cards, or Beanie Babies...it's become profitable enough that it's attracted some people I wouldn't care to deal with. All one can do is find good trading partners, screen your new traders for the asshole gene, & move on down the road.

/end rant. Have a good Sunday yourself!

 

Well said!

 

Good luck with the petition, I would be glad to sign it, as I have done every trade exactly that way.

The complaining has been the norm for the forum for a while, but the complaints were different back then, and also just as valid. Back then it was considered bad form to retrade beer, because there was a sense of wanting the recipient of your package to personally enjoy what you were excited to share.

I'm sure a similar excitement could be gotten by some of the folks who join into the commodity market atmosphere here now by thinking, "Really, you made a 40% profit on that beer I sent you? Nice job!", but one must realize that this attitude won't be shared by many of those who have been here for a while, and to whom it is about the enjoyment of the quality, not the realization of profitability, that is the root of their beer passion.

The petition was an attempt to identify the idealism of the community and to keep it going.

 

I could definitely see the merit of the petition in terms of profit. However, I don't see why retrading beer is so bad. If I traded for an ageable beer and decided to age it and then a beer comes along that someone will trade me for that original beer, what's the issue? Trading for beer just to retrade it so you can keep getting bigger whales or something isn't something I'd do, but the scenario I outlined wouldn't be outrageous, would it?

To add about new traders, I think there's always going to be a degree of bad traders and vice versa. I joined in 9/2011 and did my first trade in December. I was a noob and didn't know extras were the norm, so when I found that out I felt like an idiot. Other than that, I've always tried to communicate well with my trading partners and go $4$ and not try to "win" trades. I feel like this is the norm still, or at least that's how I'd describe the interactions I've had. I think the only reason we see so many bad trader alerts is because there's so much trading now. The larger population of members will lead to a larger population of bad members, but hopefully a larger population of good members as well.

 

I disagree. I think they have changed. You didnt really see any kid of auction threads back in the day. You also rarely saw the 'pick 1 from group a, 1 from group b, 2 from group c for 1 whale from group D' type threads. And there is certainly many more bad trades reported. It is what it is and Im not really complaining but I to say its exactly the same as its always been is inaccurate IMO.

 

There certainly were auction threads 'back in the day', both open & hidden, but people were a lot faster to jump on the open ones. I clearly recall responding to an ISO years ago (not that I'm bitter!) within seconds of it being posted with exactly what the guy was offering up. Rec'd a vague "Set up something else" several hours later; clearly he got a better offer. Happened then, still does, I'm sure.

And like someone said above, the sheer number of traders is going to increase the number of bad traders. Proportionately, it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.

 

wasn't that a pledge, not a petition?

either way, you ain't locking anyone into that who doesn't want to. A bad trader isn't going to say, 'You got me! I'll ship everything out in the morning. I would have got away with it, too, if it wasn't for your damn meddling pledge!"