Do you mind when breweries refuse to grow or expand?

Well not crazy just did not think it costs that much for the land, and a building, and a 200 barrel brew system. I still don't and after looking on probrewer.com and checking out the costs of a 1 million a year production, I still think it would near the 50 million range tops, even with a restaurant, labor etc. Those press release statements are total marketing speak. I will find out though. after Boston beer spend 55million to buy out a complete 6million BBL brewery, it just sounds high and some other article is saying 175 million. I think it may have a 175 million impact, but NOT cost that much to actually build it. and yes I do KNOW what things costs, my best friend builds buildings for a living in this size and higher.

 

There were several breweries that got big loans to expand in the mid/late 90s. Some built new breweries. The big craft beer boom turned into a slow crawl. So tell me where Catamount, Saxer, Nor'wester are today (I missed many)? They had to fold when they could not service their debt due to not making the projected sales volume.

With 1000 to 1100 breweries in the planning stage right now, I might not be too excited about expanding to fast.

 

FYI Russian River has expanded, just not to your liking ... which makes you selfish. FWIW it is hard not to be somewhat crass when you are saying breweries are being selfish. Ridiculous. Get some thicker skin. Also report a post if you think it goes against the rules here.

 

Boston and Worcester Mass as well (maybe other places in Mass too)

 

"TIL" lol seriously tho i didnt know that and that's pretty cool of them.

 

you forgot that expansion would mean that you would spend less time helping animals and more time administrating.

 

i don't mind. There's too much great beer available to me to worry about all the ones that are not.

 

Actually, this can sometimes be irritating. If a brewery underestimates demand, that's one thing (KBS day). However, if a brewery is making plenty of beer, knows the demand, and still cannot supply the local market they should at least look into keeping more beer in the market (whether at the brewpub, at local shops, or at local bars). An effort should at least be made. Breweries should strive to support their local bars, local beer stores, and local clientele who have often supported them from the start.

 

Why? If their business model is to grow and expand their reach in order to help eventually expand their production again (as will soon be the case with Goose Island and Founders, and is currently going on with Firestone Walker), logic suggests that eventually the local markets will be more than satisfied again, no? Sure there may be a year or two where a limited release is hard to find, but eventually it seems these things will even themselves out with enough expanded production.

 

I think it's selfish that you believe brewers that don't adhere to your wishes are being selfish.

 

When did breweries become a branch of local government? Breweries are private businesses; they have zero obligation to serve the local community first. Their only obligations are to make beer, pay their employees, and break even or preferably turn a profit. How they choose to do that is entirely up to them.

Now, to moderate this statement a little bit: In a perfect world it would be ideal if breweries could satisfy local demand before expanding their reach. That's just not how things always work. And of course, a brewery that burns local loyalty (or takes it for granted) may suffer the consequences, and that's a risk too.

 

No it isnt.

Banking cash flow for years so that you can fund expansion yourself without taking on crippling debt levels isnt being selfish. What do you think kills most breweries (most small businesses, in fact)? Debt is crippling to a small business and breweries, especially, have the problem that expansion comes in large, expensive steps. You cant expand on the margins past a certain point. You have to commit to the next big step. Do you take on potential crippling debt that will shut you down if you dont expand fast enough, or take a few years and solidify and build up cash until you can either pay for the expansion or take a reasonable amount of debt.

Look at Bell's for example (see the thread on him potentially selling). He wants to use cash to expand, many of his minority shareholders want that cash distributed to them. Neither is absolutely "right" in this case, both are reasonable uses of the money.

 

this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

 

And he repeated it, I really think he means "selfish", which is insane. It deserves to be derailed.

 

I am not saying it's an obligation. I'm saying it's admirable for a brewery to use this business tactic and I think it benefits them in the long run. I would say the same about all businesses - they should (meaning it's admirable and good for business to) support their local economy and local clientele. This is just one way to support the local economy and community among many others. However, I would argue that the types of breweries that sell lots of beer locally are the same types of breweries that support their community in other ways.

It's a lifestyle - supporting the local community.

 

I take it you have never been to Cantillon. They are tiny, and brew on an old system. Capacity is limited by the barrels that they can store on site. They have talked of expanding into an adjacent building, I don't know if they have. Back when I first visited there, 1998-ish, they were not looking too prosperous, and they did distribute to the US. Things have changed, you don't see dusty bottles of Cantillon on the shelf like you did 10-11 years or so ago. I don't think demand always exceeded supply for them, as Lambics were a style that was almost dead a few years back.

You think expanding is easy. It is not. Vinnie Curlizo said that it took some time to get Pliny the Elder brewed at the production facility to match the Pliny brewed at the brewpub. If you put in a state of the art 200 barrel system, the efficiency of wort production, and hop utilization in the boil, will both be different, resulting a in different flavor in the beer. Some places dump batches until they get it dialed in - I know this is the case. It takes guts and a financial reserve to be able to do that and not alienate the customers used to the flavor of your beer.

 

I agree that it's admirable but definitely not required. I guess I interpreted your previous statement that way because of the use of the word "should".

 

The annoying thing is that his thread title is completely different from his post. His Title is actually a legit topic, IMO. The whole "selfish" angle is kind of derailing it.