Best 6-7 Gallon Fermentor?

Not exactly true, the recommendation concerns yeast in suspension.

http://www.stonebrewing.com/news/081201/ (page 42)

That's of course assuming you're talking about the above recommendation.

 

Different brewers use different techniques when it comes to dry hopping.

It is you who is incorrect here.

Cheers!

 

Nothing in that link contradicts what I said. Stone drops the cake before dry hopping. I've read other articles where Mitch Steele confirms this as a standard practice prior to dry hop.

From your link. "Yeast tends to suck up a lot of hop components, which means sometimes your beer loses out." This applies to yeast in suspension and yeast sitting at the bottom of the tank.

 

Different brewers also make better beer than others. Nothing you've said here supports your original claim or refutes mine.

Try again.

 

The first part of the suggestion is: "Don't Dry-hop when a lot of yeast is still in suspension. If you're beer is reasonably clear, you'll extract more hop flavor."

I suppose because this article is aimed at the typical homebrewer, they omitted dropping the cake as the equipment is not as common. But the suggestion itself only applies to suspended yeast.

 

That's correct. It certainly doesn't mean you can't make a nicely aromatic beer without dropping the cake.

But to claim there is no difference either way is false.

 

Sierra Nevada, Firestone Walker and a number of other quality breweries dry hop in the presence of yeast.

If you do a bit of research you might learn something.

 

The following quotes, from For the Love of Hops, allude to these practices.

[When dryhopping] It's critical to have extract left (and yeast) because... there will be oxygen left in the sacks [of hops]," brewmaster Steve Dressler explained.

Brynildson dryhops Union Jack for three days, removes hops and yeast from the bottom of the fermentation tank, and dryhops for another three days.

A majority of breweries separate beer from yeast before dryhopping, particularly yeast that is to be repitched. Dressler said Sierra Nevada keeps yeast active not only to consume oxygen trapped in hop bags, but because otherwise compounds produced only by the interaction of hops and yeast may be missing. " We don't get the same floral estery notes in some other beers if we use the torpedo process simply cold without yeast contact time," he said.

 

From the same book "The majority of breweries separate beer from yeast before dry hopping". You being wrong again makes your inappropriate condescension even less appropriate and pretty funny at the same time.

Your assertion is there is no difference between using the full capabilities of a conical versus a bucket and there no difference between dry hopping on a cake or without the cake. Simply saying a few breweries dry hop on the cake doesn't prove your point.

 

The majority would carry a lot more weight if the minority didn't include world class brewers from Sierra Nevada and Firestone Walker. I think the point this proves is that there are gains to be made by dryhopping in different ways, whether it involves temperature, yeast presence, duration, and frequency. There is no single way to realize all the virtues of dryhopping, and the best way seems to come down to individual preferences.

 

So you agree there is a difference. That is the point.

Firestone dry hops on the cake and then off then cake in two stages. Sierra uses a Torpedo for their hop forward beers. Neither of them dry hop exclusively on the cake for their hop forward beers. They both could, but they don't. All pro brewers could, but most of them consider it beneficial to drop the cake before dry hopping. This isn't practical to do with a bucket. It is easy to do with a homebrew conical, though.

 

Peter, Sierra Nevada does indeed make excellent hoppy beers. When they brew Celebration and Big Foot they do not use their Torpedo. Celebration is one of my favorite IPAs.

Cheers!

Jack

 

What if you cold crashed to drop the yeast, then added your dry hops, then raised the temp back up to wherever you are comfortable dryhopping? If I wasn't getting the flavor out of my dryhops that I was looking for, I would try it other ways before I invested in a conical. My example is one way I have tried it and was satisfied. However, I have since moved to kegging, and am happy with dry hops in the keg. The beauty of homebrewing is that we aren't beholden to the rigidity that a lot of commercial brewers stick to for the sake of efficiencies, because efficiencies at the commercial level don't really scale down to have significant meaning to home brewers. This leaves the door up for us to try things differently than the majority of professional brewers. And for a mere nickel a pint or so, we can just add another ounce of hops.

 

Mmm. I bought a 6 pack of Celebration about a month or so back. First I had had in about 5 years. Delicious. And last year I was able to buy Bigfoot at $5 per 4 pack or something crazy like that. I never had it before and usually avoid big beers. I only picked up 8 and regret that. Great stuff.

 

Peter,

The other thing to keep in mind is that the scale/geometry of commercial brewing is significantly different from homebrewing. Hundreds of gallons in a tall conical fermenter is very, very different from a 5 gallon batch in a bucket or carboy.

Below is something that Jamil Zainasheff stated in an online Q & A to discuss why there is no need to transfer a secondary for homebrewing:

“Jamil: And if you are using healthy yeast and the appropriate amount and the thing is... homebrew style fermentors..if you are using a carboy or plastic bucket which have that broad base when the yeast flocculate out they lay in a nice thin layer. When you're dealing with large, tall...one of the things you know people go "Well the commercial brewers they remove the yeast because it is gonna break down, die, and make the beer bad. We should be doing the same thing." That's where alot of this comes from. But the commerical brewers are working with 100 bbl fermenters that are very tall and put a lot of pressure on the yeast. The yeast are jammed into this little cone in the bottom and they are stacked very deep and there is a lot of heat buildup. The core of that yeast mass can be several degrees C higher than the rest of that yeast mass and it can actually cook the yeast and cause them to die faster and cause those problems with flavor and within a couple of days the viability of that yeast which the commercial brewers are going to reuse is going to drop 25%, 50% over a couple of days so they need to get that yeast out of there. You don't have that restriction as a homebrewer. You've got these broad fermenter bases that allow the yeast to be distributed evenly. It's an advantage for cleaning up the beer.”

Cheers!

Jack

 

I never said you can't make a good beer without a conical. You certainly can. The point is there is a difference between using a conical vs a bucket. It's more than just being able to drop the cake. If someone wants to spend their money on a conical, I'm not going to make the arrogant assumption they are wasting their money simply because I am satisfied with the beer I produce from a bucket.

 

Again, you miss the point. In this context, the homebrewer using a conical isn't concerned with autolysis. Yeast spread out in a bucket have a larger surface area to absorb hops compared with a conical and of course, the conical can drop the cake...

 

I also would not assume that someone spending on a conical is wasting money.

Seems we have a lot to agree on because I can accept this idea. If you want to minimize the amount of interaction between hops and yeast, reducing surface area of the yeast probably helps. Whether it should be minimized is where I think they interesting debate lies. What the ideal yeast/dryhop interaction looks like is a personal choice, and probably one that few homebrewers (and maybe pros, too) have really explored thoroughly. I certainly haven't, and am only respecting the brewers who have expressed that this interaction is important to their beers.

 

A BIG +1 to that!! Steve Dresler knows a heck of a lot about brewing.

Cheers!

 

Is that what you found when you tried both?