Poll: should we continue using the term "craft" to describe beer?

And in the US the inspiration for "craft" came from more than one of those countries, and that is often acknowledged in the names brewers give to their beers, e.g., Prima Pils. Those countries will adapt their language and usage to deal with any effects of an "uprising" taking place in a country where that uprising threatens to disrupt a lot of the traditional, intact beer culture (if such a threat actually exists). In fact some could argue that the traditional, intact beer culture of the US has already been disrupted now that we see ABInBev etc. buying craft breweries but keeping those breweries operating much as they have in the past while bringing some capital and distribution networks into the picture for how those craft breweries operate.

 

Right. And they will likely adapt their language to differentiate between U.S.-inspired new-wave "craft" beers and traditional ones. Why we can't/shouldn't do that ourselves, I don't quite understand -- especially when we can create terms like "crafty" for BMC "craft" beers. The term "craft" is all a marketing buzzword at this point anyway...so it doesn't really matter.

 

Well you and I didn't create the term "crafty" and I pretty much ignore that usage simply because it was created by an organization with a siege mentality (and for some good reasons, at least historically). Nor is it in particularly widespread usage so it can be pretty much ignored. But when some of those non-US based new-wave breweries start appearing here then the language will adapt if that becomes necessary and somebody else will create a new phrase that will get boiled down to a word, etc. Also I'd disagree that "craft" is only a marketing buzzword. It may be used in marketing certain brands of beer, but as I pointed out in my first post in this thread (#48), while "hype" and "price gouging" no longer have their original meanings they are used with their new meanings in ordinary communication by lots of people who understand each other (mostly) when those words are used. Which is why I side with those who argue that the new, current meaning of "craft" is "not mass market or industrial beers." It doesn't say what craft is or where it comes from, but it does say what is not craft beer.

Edit: So in effect we already "did it ourselves" simply because the meaning of craft these days applied to beer means "not mass market or industrial beers."

 

Personally I think it's a little arrogant (and not pointing at you, just making this point in general) to just blanket all good beer as craft beer. And of all breweries you pick Weihenstephaner?

Like I've said previously, I think do away with "craft" altogether. I think the craft movement has outgrown the need for the label. But if people are going to insist on keeping it, then at least use it properly.

 

When I walk into my local supermarket, the fact that they have "craft beers" in a seperate section from the BMCs is convenient (it might convenient if the imports were separated so that Dos Equis was not next to Newcastle, but I get beers like the latter so infrequently it is not really a big deal). When I tell a friend that I have recently gotten into craft beers, it conveys more info quickly than saying "I have gotten into beers, but not stuff like Bud, you know?" I use the word because it is so useful. I could microbrewery, because I don't keep track of the official definitions and so would call Sam Adams a microbrewery, forgive me, but apparently most people prefer the word craft. In any case, that usefulness is not impacted for me by the fact that there is some brewery in Germany making beer the same way they have since the Thirty Years War, for which the craft vs macro distinction does not really fit.

It may well be that a different word is needed in the UK. I don't need to walk down the sidewalk on my local main street to buy cookies, to realize that the US and UK often have different words for similar (but not always identical) things. As for Germany, etc, they speak a different language there anyway (last I heard).

BTW, when I was at TW lately, I saw a beer from Israel, Malka or something. The label said it was "beer avodah yad" - hand made (artisanal?) beer. Evidently every language deals with categories using its own resources.

 

Ha Ha...yeah, I was going to say this myself but you beat me to it. I think strictly for market analysis purposes it should have a designation ( possibly "artisanal" or "connoisseur" or "not shitty" ) to see how much market share the big bad boys lose over time. However, as a culture it should slip away. After all, beer is beer. The beer we drink is just "good" beer...

 

Arrogant? I'd say ill informed. Arrogance implies for me knowing there is an alternative and ignoring it. W was just the first name came to mind for longevity. Feel free to substitute the name of any brewery that feels right to you.

Outgrown the label? In some geographical areas I'd agree, but in others where ones choice is BMS or SA Boston Lager ( if that is findable) or driving 50-100 mile one way, I'd suggest not.

Properly? That's what the discussion is about. See my post earlier (#48), also think about "session" beer.

 

Yes! Jess, thank you! Call it what you want. Call craft beer just "beer" while calling the macros "macro." Call them "industrial lagers" while calling all other beer "premium" beer. Call it "small batch," call it "non-piss," call it "potent beer" or even "gourmet beer." But please, for the love of all things holy, DO NOT CALL IT MICROBREW! Every time I hear that word said, I shudder. Back in the late 90's/early 00's, it was acceptable because most, if not all, of the craft breweries in the US were at least somewhat small. But now, would you call Sierra Nevada, Stone or even Dogfish a microbrewery? Excellent beer comes from big and small breweries alike. The word "microbrew" and even the term "microbrewery" is dead. I voted "Don't Care" for the poll but, if this thread should somehow decide that "microbrew" is better terminology than "craft," I would without a doubt change my vote to an emphatic "Yes" because I very strongly prefer that word to "microbrew."

 

Isn't that what's happening? We know Weihenstephaner isn't craft beer, but we're going to call it craft anyway

 

The problem as I see it is that people on this website assign too much meaning to the word "craft" and have differing opinions on what those meanings are. So, on Beer Advocate I'd generally prefer people stop using it. However in everyday usage [i.e. in real life talking to "normal" non-beer geek folks] I think craft beer can be a useful term, because it is an easy umbrella term most people understand. For example, I can refer to craft beer in general conversation or when ordering a beer at a restaurant and people have some general idea what I'm talking about. It's rare the conversation goes into any more detail about the definition of craft from there. I also appreciate that stores have separate "craft" beer sections, so I support it's use there too. So, I think it's still an appropriate term in certain contexts, but as a community of people with higher than average knowledge of beer we need to be careful not to invest too much meaning, or emotion for some people, in the word "craft."

 

When I see that the restaurant at the mall has a sign proudly saying they serve "craft beer" I do not expect that they will have European beers made the same way since before the industrial revolution (they might, but I don't expect it). I expect they will have dogfish head, a couple of DC area beers, and a couple of the well known west coast beers. This concern about the use of 'craft' is limited to is usage by a very small proportion of the people who use the word.

 

Definitely agree with this. The places I go to in NYC, you really don't need to use craft. And I'm sure in the PNW region it's pretty much defunct. But as a last resort - absolutely.

I'm British and sometimes have issues ordering water - especially in regions less used to having Brits around. So in these situations, I'll go with my usual "worter" a couple of times, and then swallow my pride and ask for a "wahter"

 

It depends why you're using the term. If I just got introduced to a bunch of new coworkers at my first lunch break on the job and they're asking me about my hobbies, I may want to say that I'm 'interested in craft beer" as opposed to "I'm interested in beer." The reason for this is because of the audiences perception of what I'm saying. By using the term craft in that setting, I am assuming they think there is more skill or complexity involved in the product (even though there may not be), thus having an interest in that skill and complexity is understandable. If I'm at a bar with a bunch of friends and am asked, "what do you like to drink?" I may simply answer "beer" and not craft beer.

 

And all those beers are craft, so good for them for getting it right. And even if they did have Weihenstephaner and labelled it as craft, I'm not going to complain because I get why it happens. But on a beer site full of "beer advocates", I would expect a bit better

 

Other than in discussions of market penetration (in the US) vs BMC, and in discussions of converting BMC drinkers, in discussions of gateways and personal experiences in getting into non-BMC beer, does anyone really use the word "craft beer" around here?

 

I am a newb, who kind of wandered in here. Is this site only for professionals and serious beer nerds, or is it for anyone trying to learn about beer? If the latter, and if it is going to have a separate vocabulary from the rest of mainstream US non-BMC drinkers, it is going to get very confusing. Most especially so when someone quotes an article from the MSM, or a data release from the Brewers Association, etc.

 

Well then let's have you and @herrburgess put your heads to together and come up with a suitable alternative that works.

Off to the dentist now. Ta.

 

"Beer"

 

No obviously it isn't only for professionals and serious beer nerds.

But we survive for the most part, without using craft.

Like if I said to you - "you should try Heady Topper, it's the number one rated beer on here", is that going to confuse the s**t out of you, and instead I should say "you should try the craft beer Heady Topper.....", and then we'll be crystal?

Or by being on here can we all make the assumption that we're interested in good beer (whether or not we partake in some BMC once in a while - and i'm not making a judgement either way on that one, just to be clear)?

 

Count me in the yes column. Craft beer is a useful term in my opinion. It's far from perfect (I'm not a fan of big beer, but the insinuation that their brewmasters aren't skilled at their jobs is ridiculous), but it has been established to clarify what you are talking about regarding the beer world, I don't like the alternatives (microbrew, etc.) and I think there are far greater misappropriations in the English language.