Coagulation of protein and albumin -- how to ensure clean hot break

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by herrburgess, Apr 25, 2015.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    For my light lagers, I've always skimmed the coagulated proteins and albumin that forms at the onset of the boil by using a sieve. In the last two batches, the albumin didn't coagulate and form that egg white/egg drop soup consistency at the start of the boil as much as it had previously.

    I now have a way to check the batch malt analysis on the bags of Weyermann grain we use. (See here: http://www.weyermann.de/downloads/pdf/Scan_Tutorial_english2.pdf). Is there anything specific I should be looking for there to tell me what to expect in this area before we brew? Protein content, maybe? And, if so, what (if anything) can I do to ensure good coagulation of the protein and albumin during the hot break/boil? TIA.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The amount of hot break achieved is a function of boiling wort pH.

    “Below a pH of 5, the coagulation of proteins decreases. (Hot break, the light-colored flakes that form in your kettle during the boil, is coagulated protein.) Above a pH of 5, the amount of protein coagulated is constant, but the break material looks different at different pH levels. At a pH of 5.2, hot break is seen as relatively large, fluffy flakes floating in otherwise clear wort. In some cases, these flakes may even clump together into larger “globs” of break material. The farther you move away from a pH of 5.2 (in either direction), the smaller hot break particles become. A few tenths of pH point away and the wort may simply look cloudy. So, you can use the presence or absence of big, fluffy hot break flakes as an indication of whether or not you are in the right boil pH range.”

    http://beerandwinejournal.com/proper-boil-ph/

    Cheers!
     
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  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Very interesting -- and informative. My brewing calculator said that final mash pH should have been 5.2 and 5.3, respectively, for these last two batches. Will have to go back and recheck those numbers against what we mashed in with to make sure I haven't dropped below 5 somehow. Have pH strips, but no meter. Maybe that's my next investment...

    Cheers.

    EDIT: just saw in the article about how to adjust and correct without a pH meter. Again, very interesting and informative. Cheers again.
     
    #3 herrburgess, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  4. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I just noticed -- after reading the comments to the article -- that the "fix" provided may not be as simple as they make it seem, especially if your mash pH is potentially too low. I use a small proportion of acidulated malt in these beers to get the pH lower. If my pH is too low, it sounds like the calcium additions are not going to solve the problem. I could look into ditching the acidulated malt and getting the pH down through other mineral additions to the water, I guess... Hmmm.
     
    #4 herrburgess, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  5. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I use a mash pH of 5.3-5.5 and have never seen a kettle without a big, fluffy hot break. Skimming the hot break sounds like something I'd like to try. Thanks for the idea.
     
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  6. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Talking about these "flakes" right? Always reminded me up the albumin in egg drop soup.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin


    Yes, that plus a thick foam on the surface in the beginning of the boil.
     
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  8. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    would this also hold true for extract brewing?
     
  9. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    To a much smaller extent. Your extract has already received a professional quality step mash, lauter, hot break and cold break before it was condensed to extract. You may see a little egg drop soup, but don't worry if you don't.
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I do not know what brand of pH strips you are using but they are only accurate to ± 0.2 pH units or so.

    If you are using colorpHast strips there is also a reading bias of about 0.3 – 0.4 pH; below is the conclusion of a Kai Troester analysis on this topic.

    “While the colorpHast strips can be read with a precision of +/- 0.2 pH units, which is sufficient for checking mash pH, they exhibit a systematic error of 0.3 - 0.4 pH which needs to be taken into account. If a proper mash pH is considered to be between 5.3 and 5.7 when measured at room temperature the pH read with the strips should be between 5.1 and 5.3 as this will place the actual pH around 5.5 which is in the middle of the acceptable range.”

    http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/inde...st_strips_for_pH_measurements_in_home_brewing

    Cheers!
     
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  11. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Skimming has come up before and I am always puzzled. Why do you skim the hot break? What is accomplished by this practice?
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I have found that for very pale beers, skimming the hot break/albumin results in a beer that clears quicker. (Plus it gives me something to do during the boil.)
     
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  13. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

  14. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    My only comment on acidulated malt...how much acid are you really adding? With lactic acid (88% or whatever), you pretty much know exactly what you're adding. With acidulated malt...who knows really? I mean, it's malt sprayed with lactic acid. How precise could that be?
     
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  16. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    When you say clears quicker, do you mean in the bottle/keg? How much quicker are we talking about? Have you ever experimented with this, i.e. same beer but skim one batch and don't skim another?
     
  17. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Average Hot Break Composition
    - Proteins (50-60%)
    - Tannins (20-30%)
    - Hop Resins (15-20%)
    - Ash (2-3%)
    NOTE: Particle size 20-80µ (microns)

    Some factors of protein coagulation and precipitation include:
    - Boil intensity
    - Calcium content of your wort
    - Boil length (to a much lesser degree than intensity) since a very long extended boil can actually break the coagulated proteins back up and allow them to go back into solution.
    - The amount of protein / tannin (polyphenol) complex coupled with the amount of denatured protein in your wort
    - The amount of isomerized alpha acids in your wort
    - Kettle fining usage (affects break material amount at the end of the boil)
     
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  18. ScrewyBrewer

    ScrewyBrewer Initiate (0) Jul 20, 2010 New Jersey

    Are the true benefits of skimming hot break purely anecdotal? I mean if there were clear cut stark differences to the results either way in finished beer, wouldn't everyone be doing it.
     
  19. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    In the keg...about one week quicker (5 instead of 6 weeks total lagering time). And, yes, I've experimented with and without skimming.
     
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  20. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    So...brewed a batch of Rauchbier on the 1 BBL system today. Got some decent coagulation, but nothing great. So tried the advice of adding some CaCl2 to the boil: didn't help at all. I guess I just need to focus instead on pH throughout the process and try to hit those ideal numbers if possible. After it went through the heat exchanger, it did look pretty good in the sight glass.

    [​IMG]
     
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