The Great Whirlpool Hopping Experiment

Too small a brewer to participate. Will def be watching though. An extremely similar experiment has already been done.

 

So we're just trying to see what happens with different hopstand times?

 

I'm still interested in playing, but I'm trying to think of how to make this work from a practical point of view. Suppose I want to do #1 and #2 (hot and mid range stands), I can immediately drain off 5 gallons into a bucket and then do the #1 (hot hopstand) in my boil pot for 30mins then chill. Meanwhile, the other 5 gallons may have dropped to 180 (not likely) so transfer to boil pot, chill as necessary, then 30 min hopstand, then chill.

Or I could do #1 as stated and just roll with whatever temp the 2nd 5 gallons has dropped to if it is below 180.

How were you planning on doing this in practice? Any better ideas?

Why both Cascade and Centennial (super Cascade)? I personally think it would be better for experimental purposes to avoid the dry hops all together.

Just to clarify, 4oz total for the FO addition, right?

 

https://byo.com/hops/item/2808-hop-stands

Ran across this tidbit in Stan Hieronymous' "For the Love of Hops"..(eliminates the excrutiating amount of variables) but revisited under "Dry Hop Considerations" in the article, Rock Bottom Brewing did this in a more controlled way. Very interesting results!

Cheers!

 

I recall reading an article somewhere that mentioned the different types and staying power of aroma hopping. Ever since I've been using all three types in my IPAs.

Kettle aroma hop where hops are boiled in the kettle for 5 minutes or less
Whirlpooling/Knockout where the heat is turned off and aroma hop additions are then added to the slowly cooling wort
Dry hopping where aroma hops are added to the fermenter post primary fermentation

I wish I could find the link to the article but I'm sure someone else has stumbled upon it too. The article was written to address issues with hop aroma fading in the packaged beer and which method [Whirlpooling/Knockout] was reported to have kept the aroma the longest.

 

Makes sense to me. The less time you boil off aromatic compounds (assuming all of your brewing, fermentation, and packaging processes are sound) the more you will retain in the final product.

 

I'm in for this experiment but I won't be able to make the Memorial Day timeline. Unfortunately my next brewing opportunity won't be until July. What were your thoughts on logistics for tastings? Were you thinking of a bottle exhange? That could get pricey with 4 variations. How about trying to have a local group brew all 4 variations then sample/taste locally and then exchange the results with other groups? That would take the shipping and timing issues out. And produce independent results, which could indicate how repeatable this might be.

I'm thinking about brewing all four variations in one brew day. I think I have the logistics and equipment figured out. I'll do a 12 gallon batch and split it into four 3 gal fermenters (cornies). I'll have to add the bittering additions in phases. I'm also going to complicate things a bit. I'm going to bottle half of each without the dry hops, and then DH the remaining halves and bottle those a few days later. I'm personally curious about how much DH'ing adds to a well WP'ed beer. I may pull two tasting panels together, one with beer geeks, and the other with homebrewers. It will be a lot of work, but will make July interesting for me.

One last thought. How tightly held should the WP'ing temperature be? I'm thinking of hooking up an RIS to hold the last three variations close to the stated temps for the full 30 min.

 

every home brewer should read that book. period.

 

I have a few comments:

1. It is likely that different hops respond to hop stands differently because of differences in oil content. Using two hops (centennial and cascade) obscures this.

2. I think that by also using dry hops, you are obscuring your ability to detect the impact of your experiment. I suppose you could argue that since most people making hoppy beers are dryhopping, that is the context in which you wish to evaluate the hopstand. If this is the case, I suggest some sort of sensory evaluation of the hop character before and after dry hopping.

3. Time in hopstand, whirlpool mixing, and temperature will conspire to influence how much hop oils get volatilized.
A. Temp is the factor you wish to test.
B. It looks like you are setting time at 30 min. Is this arbitrary or base on some pre-existing understanding.
C. Perhaps you could not whirlpool when hops are in the wort so as not to cause mixing that continuously brings hop oils to the surface where the volatilize? I've never seen anyone address this. Perhaps it is a non-issue. It only just occurred to me.

 

The same hops will vary depending on where they were grown, when they were picked and how they were packaged. Since the intention is to crowd source this experiment, there are too many variables that won't be consistent. The ingredients won't be the same and the process won't be the same. People won't chill at the same rates. People won't ferment in the same vessel. People won't expose the beer to the same amount of oxygen. Shipping will alter the beers in different ways. The list goes on and on.

If you proceed with this experiment, I would consider the results to be interesting, but inconclusive. Hop steeps are something individuals can try on their own terms and they determine what works best for them. I suppose there are people who prefer to have other people decide what works best for them, so maybe it's worth doing for them???

 

I would actually argue the opposite. If an experiment with this many uncontrolled variables has clear cut results, the controlled factors are quite important. However, I think my IF is a big one, and I am doubtful that clear cut results can be revealed.

 

That's a good point. We might be able to control this a little.

Telejunkie, did you buy your hops for this yet? It looks like we will need about a lb of each hop for all 4 variations. If we pick a supplier and all purchase from the same place it's likely we will all start with the same hops. If you get a local group together you can split the hop purchase.

Thanks for the averages, let me know if they change. I'll use these as my set points for the RIMs, it may be more like a suos vide, but either way I plan to control the temperatures.

btw: pweis909 has a good point with the DH'ing Could you bottle some none DH'ed beer before you dry hop?

aside: I think using two hops is ok in this case, we're not trying to find which hop contributes more, just trying to find a temperature dependency.

Good feedback so far.

 

@Naugled

“Could you bottle some none DH'ed beer before you dry hop?”

Hmmm?

I ferment in a primary bucket and I dry hop in my primary. I also happen to own a 3 gallon carboy that I use to lager small batches but I suppose it could function as a secondary for dry hopping?

Just thinking out loud:

When the primary fermentation is complete and the beer is ready for dry hopping I suppose I could:

· Siphon half of the beer to the 3 gallon carboy and dry hop that portion

· Siphon the other half to my bottling bucket and bottles those beers without dry hopping

I would think this process would ‘work’?

Cheers!

 

There is no denying that there is some concern here.

Cheers!