Coagulation of protein and albumin -- how to ensure clean hot break

We use step, but I think I'm misunderstanding the question. Your concern should be with the pH of the wort, not the mash. IIRC, the isoelectric point for proteins is quite low (around 4.9 or so). Usually people try to get around 5.2 or so. Many German brewers will acidify the wort during the boil (like maybe 30 minutes from the end). You don't want to do it at the beginning, as hop utilization drops with a lower pH.

 

“I do many/all of the same things to obtain clear wort, but recently have had some batches where my existing processes didn't seem to result in as much coagulation of proteins during the early stages of the boil. What do you do in such cases (assuming you have encountered them)?” In all of the 350+ batches of beer that I have brewed I have never experienced a non-substantial hot break. In fact I have the ‘opposite’ problem where I have to watch the kettle like a hawk to make sure I don’t experience a boil over.

“There are also the factors of pH that may be playing a role here, as discussed. Just thought I'd ask about the protein rest since, especially when I have utilized one as part of a decoction regiment, I have noticed a distinct layer of coagulated protein atop the grain bed before (and during) sparge.” I have no way of knowing for a fact that your issue is due to not having a proper boiling wort pH but I am pretty confident that the ‘solution’ is not the need for a protein rest. I generally do not conduct protein rests in my hombrewing practice since I do not have a need for that aspect. For the sake of completeness I will state that I conducted a step mash which included an acid rest, protein rest and a starch conversion when I brewed my Grodziskie but I only did that since that batch was 100% Wheat Malt.

Cheers!

 

I've noticed greater clarity in by wort by upping my Ca level to around 100 ppm and making sure my boil pH is around 5.3-5.5 at the start of the boil. A good strong boil seems to help as well. I usually target anywhere from 5.2 to 5.5 for a mash pH depending on the beer and I treat my sparge water with acid so that it doesn't increase the pH too much.

I skim only because it gives me something to do and it helps prevent boil over, which is especially helpful when trying to boil 14 gallons in a 15 gallon kettle.

 

According to Kai Troester: “Germans love step mashing and the Hochkurz mash is the most popular mashing schedule today.”

The Hochkurz mash has two steps:

· 63 °C (145 °F)

· 72 °C (162 °F)

You can clearly see that a protein mash is not a part of the Hochkurz mash.

Cheers!

 

great discussion! sorry, just saw this thread. At this point seems like I have little to add to the discussion beyond what has already been stated. Herrburgess, the above post makes me think that mash pH will help the situation. I noticed a year or two ago that my hot break on lighter colored brews really started to jump out when I started adding phosphoric acid to my mash & sparge water which brought my mash pH & kettle pH to a much better spot since i have hard water. Seriously...i thought the strong hot break in my porter's & stouts had to do with something in the darker grains. Actually i have yet to skim...but may try this weekend since my plan is to brew a german pils....

As for the German's, the brewers are pretty tight-lipped so I get all my info about them as basically here-say...but it was my understanding that the protein rest has been all but relinquished to annals of mashing history with a few exceptions..although still many perform a step mash. I could be wrong...especially with hefe production. I personally still perform a multi-step mash and try to decoct at least once when brewing my hefe. I don't know of any tests that have been shown performing a protein rest will result in a thinner, more watery beer...I do know that there are still homebrewers who perform a protein rest and are willing to shout from the top of tall buildings that it does not lead to a thinner beer. Also its effects on head retention...? What I probably should do is to pass this along to Ashton Lewis, as this is his department.

 

Dave,

It would be interesting to see what Mr. Wizard has to say on this topic.

Cheers!

 

As I posted:

"Below is what John Palmer states in his online book How to Brew:

“Moderately-modified malts benefit from a protein rest to break down any remnant large proteins into smaller proteins and amino acids as well as to further release the starches from the endosperm. Fully-modified malts have already made use of these enzymes and do not benefit from more time spent in the protein rest regime. In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery."

Cheers!

 

My advice is to get a good pH meter. You are making 1 bbl batches, why screw around with the pH strips.

 

Narziss: "Qualitative and Quantitative aspects of Mashing ", Brauwelt, Vol. III, 1993
Kunze: Brewing and Malting

IIRC, Narziss called the character "hollow" or something like that.

 

Relax, have a homebrew...sorry I had to.

I recently stopped the skimming process. I don't think big breweries do it, so why should I?

 

I used to have one somewhere in my office, but I moved a while ago. I'll see if I can locate it.

Edit: It's also referenced in "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques," which is where I recall reading it first (although I probably saw it on HBD back in the day as well). I also, unfortunately, seem to have misplaced that book as well

 

What temperature are you sparging at by chance @herrburgess ? I ask because using sparge water over 170F increases the risk of dissolving beta glucan into your wort. It is my understanding that a protein rest can indeed activate protease enzymes that aid in breaking down beta glucan. Protease enzymes will help minimize the solubility of polypeptides responsible for beer haze.

NOTE: This reply is merely with regards to beer clarity in general and your questions about whether a protein rest can encourage better clarity. It has nothing to do with your lack of hot break!

 

yup.... corrected!