The Definitive Knock-down, Drag-out Cloudy Beer Debate Thread

I think distinguishing between the different types of "cloudiness" (and their various possible causes) is of paramount importance to the discussion. A bit of haze in a chilled, dry hopped IPA is one thing; a yeasty cloudiness, combined with hop haze, in a "Koelsch" is something completely different.

 

Just opened up an Other half Citra IPA. That beer was cloudy AF, but not in a pretty way. I thought it looked super muddled - not my idea of a beautiful beer.

I also thought the aroma was pretty great on it on the onset. However, it fell off extremely fast after I poured. It was canned 5 days ago.

 

Naturally, but given a reasonably sensitive sense of smell (say within normal boundary limits), that could mean that "huge" isn't actually very big.

 

So it's really just color and carbonation? Seems to me it's a synecdoche to represent the whole of macro lagers. But, yea, I agree it's primarily marketing BS; still, the geeks have also certainly taken that ball (bait?) and run with it far enough so that many now distrust any beer that is pale and clear.

 

Right. Conversely, beers such as Helles, Kellerbier, etc., that don't typically have much in the way of hop aromas may lose a little, but not necessarily enough to make a meaningful difference in overall flavor.

EDIT: also, as mentioned above, initially intense aromas have a tendency to fade rather quickly. So while the immediate impact may be large on "loss of flavor," in the longer term, it may not make a huge difference.

 

Not from drinking any clear beer, but maybe from drinking (or better said, purchasing) any filtered beer...even those where the aromas were minimal to begin with by intent.

 

Well, again, we'd have to distinguish here between types of filtration. There's diatomaceous earth (or DE, as mentioned above); Horizontal Pressure Leaf Filters; plate sheet filters; Lenticular Sheet Filters; etc. Each has a different effect (and each filter can have a different size/porosity) on the resulting beer. From what I understand, most German lagers (and Koelschs and Altbiers and Kristallweizen) are indeed filtered using one or the other of these methods. http://www.probrewer.com/library/filtration/filter-media-and-equipment/

 

UK cask ales usually use Isinglass (which is typically added directly to the cask) to clear the beer. Some might consider this a form of "filtration." In my edit to my previous post, I said that most German beers are in some way filtered. They are also lagered and cold-conditioned to clear them, but this doesn't necessarily get all of the yeast/proteins/etc. out of the beer, so some form of filtration may be necessary to clear that portion of the beer when transferring from lager tanks to brite tanks for carbonating and/or to the kegs for filling.

 

I have very mixed feeling about Other Half. They are the new hot brewery in NY but i'm not completely sold yet. They make some great IPAs that I love but they also almost exclusively make IPAs. 10 of the 12 on their board are IPAs. If you are pumping out that many IPAs a week you are bound to hit on a few. Want to see a little more from them.

 

“But as for the question about lagers (and many cask ales, it appears) -- those are not actually filtered, at least traditionally, are they?”

To the best of my knowledge most (all?) commercial/industrial lagers are filtered. Cask ales were traditionally (and still are?) fined with isinglass to settle the yeast.

Cheers!

 

Well, actually that may not be accurate. The relationships between physical stimuli and their sensory effects are not linear, so that the amount of change in the physical required to make a "just noticeable difference" depends on the overall level of how much there is.

When there is more of something (e.g., light, sound, etc., etc.) it requires larger amounts be added or removed to make a noticable sensory difference. (Consider hearing someone speak in a normal conversational tone in a quiet room and in the same tone in a noisy restaurant.)

When there is less of something to begin with it requires a smaller change to make a noticable difference. So removing 10% of hop aroma from a beer that depends heavily on it may actually not be noticeable or barely noticeable but removing 10% of hop aroma from a beer that has a lot less of it can in fact more subtantally change the aroma and thereby the flavor the second beer to a more noticable degree than the first seems to be changed.

 

Tom,

Thank you for that post. I was thinking exactly what you expressed but you articulated it better than I could.

Cheers!

 

Yeah I liked what they were pumping out as I had a few from them including G is for Green, Nelson, Citra, and AGE. They are definitely good, but was a bit disappointed with the canned version of citra. Could have been a fluke can, but I have 7 more to test that theory.

 

Well, these are much deeper waters now...but I will say recent studies on the neuroplasticity of the brain have shown that such smaller changes -- or more specifically, their detection -- are/is frequently the result of new connections being "built" along neural pathways that had been naturally pruned during childhood. Without proper training, these new pathways may or may not exist, so the changes in intensity would only be noticed by those who have trained their brains to pick up on them. Whereas larger changes could more easily be picked up by anyone.

 

:-)

Nichts zu danken.

I'll pass your comment on to the guy who explained to me in the first place and tell him that his tutorship seems to have borne fruit.