The Definitive Knock-down, Drag-out Cloudy Beer Debate Thread

The Average BA is statisically most likely to have a perfectly normal sensory system that operates well within the ranges/limits of normal capabilities, just as do yours and mine. (If anything it would be more reasonable to argue that the abnormal ones are you and I... :-).)

As for innate predilections, should we then say that you have an innate predilection for the German langauge because you learned the language, spend more time using it than most people, and even have a preference for it in some situations? Would e want to say that would be the same innate predilection that led you to like well brewed German style beers and have such a strong liking for Rauchbiers? Kind of "Germanic-things seeking" behaviors? That's a path I don't think we want to go down.

Since were are simply speculating here, perhaps any predilictions for certain flavors are simply the net result the kind and amount of personal experience.

 

Within the past 10 years or so, the basic approach to clarifying beer in this country changed. It used to be that everything was at least DE filtered, and the bottled beer would then have further sterile filtration. Nowadays, a lot of breweries will rely on the centrifuge and/or biofine finings without the filtration- even for bottled product. This does have the benefit of producing a fairly clear beer without having been stripped of flavor and aroma; sometimes you will even see further settling on the bottom of bottles as they sit on the shelves, but I believe that is mostly the very fine proteins and not really yeast.

Sometimes a brewer will get 'greedy', and keep on bottling the beer towards the bottom of the tank (where all of the 'stuff' has settled down due to the finings)- and that is where I believe most of the occasional bottles of 'floaties' comes from.

In any event, I agree with the general position that haze does not equal cloudy, and that many unfiltered (and excellent) beers can be perfectly clear.

 

I would draw a huge yard-wide line in the sand between fining and filtration - they are completely different beasts. Fining does not remove hop aroma, as far as I can tell. Or, if it does, it's a very minute amount. If you want to make a hop forward IPA and you also want clarity, fining is the path you want. It takes proper handling and patience, but you can achieve clarity roughly equal to DE or sheet filtration without the flavor loss.

 

Just finished a Dinner, and it's murky as hell, but it is a terrific beer.

 

I read your post earlier on this and it was very infomative. I grabbed some from the first we received around here and there were "floaties" in it . I really believed this was the intention of OC. To make a "Heady" type brew. It was interesting to read that MG said they are readjusting their technique on finishing that beer to take the floaties out.
I have no problem with the New England Style IPA cloudiness because I love the taste and its an accepted part of the style.
That said I'm a big fan of appearance in a beer in the appropriate style.
And there's nothing that adds more beauty to a beer than the color and clarity.
Thanks @JackHorzempa !

 

Bro....is that Edelstoff? SWOON

 

Brew a clone. I'd drink it. All.

 

You may want to trademark that because I could see myself using that phrase to describe plenty, especially when I get into a serious cooking discussion! But yes, the "more must be better because it's more" style of thinking has blame in the explosion of massive beers and snubbing of incredibly flavorful yet delicate European styles. Not quite sure if "delicate" is the right word....just can't think of a better adjective to illustrate the juxtaposition between the styles though.

 

Russian River cold conditions to drop yeast, dry hops, then centrifuges ( at least Vinnie has said so in different places). Their hoppy beers are always clear. Just agreeing with you that a clear beer will not lack for hop aroma.

 

I think some of the posters on this thread think you get a better TV picture if the screen is covered with dust.

 

Is that at the Augustiner-Keller on Arnulfstrasse?

 

Best lager them IPAs!

 

They have a DE filter, but do they use it on every brand? I agree that that Union Jack is a fantastic IPA - I stand by the fact that DE strips out some aroma though. If you start from a place where taking out 30% of the aroma leaves you with the aroma you want you can certainly make a wonderful beer. You're still throwing hops away.

I'm not critiquing anyone's process or beers, simply saying aroma loss due to filtration isn't apocryphal, it's empirical. There's lots of excellent filtered beers out there, nevertheless.

 

Does AB-InBev use DE filtration? If so, do y'all start out with a good deal more hop aroma in your beers?

 

Discussion of facebook ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0100101519870161.2440875.34886&type=1&theater

 

Yes and yes!

 

Well, I may not take it to the end of the full process you describe, but I'll take a shot at the triangle a couple of times and report here (or any separate thread for this). I'm fairly certain I can pick out which is which, but we'll see.

 

Yes and yes. Of course, "a good deal more" in a low BU lager isn't a lot to begin with, but there's still a perceivable difference. The lab work I was doing used a 60 BU dry hopped IPA, however.

 

That's probably ok. Even a one try blind triangle test is more trustworthy than a one try blind two sample either or tasting.

Has to do with the odds of being right by chance.