Sixpoint Jammer Gose (May 2015)

I wanted to like this bad...agreed it's coming up short..it's not interesting at all
At least you guys didn't pay 15$... That guys getting a talking to..Sixpoint doesn't need one
Still a big fan

 

After having had Jammer I recently asked the beer manager at my local liquor store what she thought of Jammer and she described it as, "Miller with salt." I think this is what you're going up against when you try to sell a beer like this at this price point. It feels like a rip-off when you buy a $11 six pack that tastes in many ways similar to a $5 six pack.

On that note I just had Off Color Brewing's Troublesome which was more along the lines of what I was expecting. It doesn't slam you in the face with sourness but it's there and it doesn't have that adjunct lager taste overpowering everything. Putting it another way, I spent $6 on two 12oz bottles of that and came away feeling like it wasn't a rip-off.

 

We really don't need your "defense" here but its definitely appreciated and nice to know that some of the folks on this thread actually know what they are talking about. Its not really our priority to call out the ignorant, but on the other hand, since you know your stuff, we might as well give you a pat on the back. High-five!

There is no such thing as a "traditional" American Gose because up until a few years ago, you couldn't even get a Gose from an American Brewery, unless it was a one-off, or extremely limited distribution from a local brewery. Even when we first made this beer there was no real traction for this style - it was largely seen as a fringe beer that was only sought after by beer geeks.

On the other hand, there is a very clear tradition of Gose in Northeastern Germany, where the style originates from, and has been brewed for decades. If you get a chance, check out one of the "gosenschenke halle" where it is consumed as the focal and primary beverage on site - a pretty awesome experience.

Because there is no tradition for American Gose, there is no standard. You can't say "this is not brewed to style" because there is no style. Its wide-open, and Sixpoint is helping to define it!

Hey man, if you just hit the "reply" button and respond underneath, it will show up as a response to my post.

Fwiw there are no adjuncts in this beer, but we hear you about your request of the balance among tartness, spice, and salt. That is something we worked very hard to complete, and we will continue to do so.

curious as to who would charge $15 for this 6pack, as its for sale right now at Whole Foods for $9.99. But as we said many times before, our retailers are free to charge whatever they want for the beer - but we believe the customers will always gravitate towards the best value (freshest beer at the best price with proper service)

cheers

 

I will take that to my grave..it's a conversation between the owner and I... Their prices are in line w/ most everything don't know why they priced it like this

 

Its difficult to say, but sometimes its an honest mistake. We have noticed that when you sell 4-packs to retailers, they sometimes divide the case price by 4 when in actuality they should divide the case price by 6 in order to get the proper markup per unit. Some people just assume a case has 4 six-packs in it, and as a result, the markup gets all wonky.

 

Hey Sixpoint, your quotes of me and responses are a little too cute and don't addres anything valid; you're just engaging in semantics.

You made a mediocre beer with some real issues. I didn't like it. I like your other stuff. Don't antagonize and piss off consumers inclined to buy your other products. Thanks.

 

I actually received a nice inbox from Sixpoint that I did not see before posting the above. I appreciate the direct outreach and concern, and remain a fan of this brewery. You can't win them all, and I don't know of a brewery who hasn't made at least one big whiffer.

 

I think we have a documented history of wanting to engage in meaningful and respectful conversation. There was nothing in the previous post that was meant to be antagonizing; apologies if you interpreted it that way.

I wanted to point out that there is a weird phenomenon I've seen over the years where people will love a beer at $3 a pint, but they hate it at $8 a pint. Its the same exact beer in the same exact glass - so the flavor should not be different at all. But baked into the cake of every beer experience appears to be a value proposition, so its interesting how the price of a beer can actually influence how you feel the beer tastes.

 

Torch_Lake said: I'm trying one straight out of the can now, and it's a little better. The skunky aroma seems to be more at bay. The taste still seems to vary swallow by swallow. I still can't recommend it.

The combination of sour and salty is a winner in theory. This just wasn't ready for prime time.

Sixpoint replied: So you're saying with amplified salt and sour flavors, its then prime time?

My $0.02 worth: I think yes. I think if you were to get around 1/2 the sourness that's in this beer. With some noticeable sea saltiness to balance, and then keep everything else pretty much the same; It'd be a SOLID winner, no doubt!!!

 

I love Sixpoint, I really do. One of their staples over the years has been to make hybrid beers with no basic classification. I appreciate that, but am confused what has been happening over the past 6 months. If memory serves me correct, I do not recall them placing the style right on the packaging for people to compare their product to a certain style. They built their brand on making their own brews, without having to classify them in a certain category, something that I always admired about Sixpoint.

Assuming this was a "gose," I was disappointed (minimal sour and salt). But I do appreciated the subtle nuances of it and LOVE this brewery. If the packaging didn't say "Gose," I don't think people would be throwing a fit over this.

 

To further my point, this year's HI-RES labeled it as a IIIPA whereas last year's did not (I think).

 

Maybe that goes with changing expectations when trying something new, weather it is conscious or not, when they pay more someone may have higher expectations, and apply a higher mental standard on a beer. While the cheaper one can be more of a less-$$-ventured-less-gained purchase in thier mind if it isnt "great." Eh, just a guess.

 

I was expecting this to be similar to the traditional German gose's such as Ritterguts but was very disappointed. Tasted like a slightly salted pils to me...

 

Shane, it sounds like you are learning the concept of Customer Value Proposition?

“A product with a successful consumer value proposition is directly linked to a product's actual and sustained performance versus competition. The two main attributes that allow consumers to differentiate among products are price and quality. Finding the correct balance between these two attributes usually leads to a successful product. If a company is able to produce the same quality product as its direct competition but sell it for less, this provides a price value to the consumer. Similarly, if a company is able to produce a superior quality product for the same or a slightly higher but acceptable price, the value to the consumer is added through the quality of the product. A product must offer value through price and/or quality in order to be successful.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_value_proposition

Price is most definitely a factor in a consumer good and will influence how a consumer feels about that consumer good.

Consumer Value Proposition applies to toilet paper and beer as well.

Cheers!

 

I enjoyed Jammer. And unlike many other BAs, I did find it sour.

However, it was not tart.

 

That's interesting, can you elaborate on the difference between sour and tart?

 

Sure. Sour is a broad term. Spoiled milk can be sour, but so can a lemon. Yet you would not say the sour flavor in spoiled milk and the sour flavor in a lemon are necessarily similar.

Tart is a subset of sour that usually describes an acidic or citric type of sour. To go back to my initial example above, a lemon is tart. But spoiled milk is not.

When I think of the Gose's being used to compare in this thread, Westbrook, Anderson Valley, etc. they all have that acidic citric like tartness.

Jammer does have a sour component, but it is not particularly tart in the acidic sense.

 

Really don't know where you're getting this stuff.

The definition you've described for tart is the first definition for sour in just about any dictionary. Tart is a synonym for sour in any thesaurus. Your example of soured milk is even more silly since sour milk gets its flavor from lactic acid (ie where the tartness comes from in a gose).

 

I think I understand what you mean, before I ever tasted a sour beer but had heard of them, I imagined them to taste somewhat "milky sour". The idea sounded gross to me, then when I tried one and it tasted clean, tart sour, I loved it!

 

Sour milk and lemons do not bear the same flavor do they? Yet they are both sour.

There's actually a good thread here on BA about the difference between sour and tart.

edit: I should also add that Lactobacillius, malic acid, acetic acid, and citric acid, are all sour. But do not necessarily taste the same.