Brewing tables from 1867-1871.

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Crusader, May 18, 2014.

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  1. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Here's a table from an article in the Journal of the institute of brewing from 1960, dealing with the brewing industries of Germany and Denmark which I thought was interesting as it pertains the question of Märzen beer:
    [​IMG]

    And here's an excerpt from an article published in 1966 on the topic of the German brewing industry written by Ludwig Narziss:

    "The West German export beers are somewhat darker.
    For these beers, as well as for
    the Bavarian pale-coloured lager beers, malt
    with a good modification and a colour
    of approximately 4° E.B.C. is required.
    Occasionally a certain percentage of "Wiener"
    malt with a colour 5-0-6-00 E.B.C. is used in
    the grist, although this malt is normally used
    for "Marzenbieren" (medium coloured beers).
    The dark Munich malts have a very wet
    and intensive germination and are kilned
    off at 100-105° C; as a result they obtain a
    good aroma. Owing to the lengthy kilning
    they are poor in enzymes and have to be
    mashed very carefully. They are used on
    their own, or together with approximately
    1% coloured malt for the brewing of dark
    beer. For Marzenbiere they are blended to
    50% with pale malt."
     
  2. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Found this table in a book from 1843 which was interesting, it's a list of "every winter beer" which had been brewed by Munich brewers and taken from the breweries on the 24th of january. The abv appears to have shifted between around 3.4%-4.9% and the original gravity between around 10.76-15%.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Good stuff again. What's the book?
     
  4. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Here it is, the table is on page 706.
     
  5. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I found some interesting tables of beer analyses which I thought I would post here.
    First is a set of tables showing beers analyzed from five different Munich breweries from year to year (all of the tables are from various editions of Bayerisches Brauerjournal).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Next is a table showing dark summer lager beers, Märzen beers, a couple of starkbiere, Salvator and three weissbiere. This table is taken from a 1908 edition of Bayerisches Brauerjournal.


    [​IMG]
    Here is a table from 1912.

    [​IMG]
    This table is from 1913.
    [​IMG]
    And this finally is from 1914.

    [​IMG]

    One interesting thing about these tables is the column for "colour in 1/10 normal iodine solution" or "farbe in 1/10 normal jodlösung". The pattern which can be seen here is that the two Pilsener samples are the lightest at 0.6, then comes the Märzenbiere, then the Winterbiere, then the starkbiere and lastly Salvator. The higher gravity Märzenbiere are thus lighter in color than the lower gravity winterbiere, so instead of having a color inbetween winterbier and Munich starkbier/Salvator, it instead ranks inbetween Pilsner and Winterbier, as one would expect of Vienna-style lager beers.
     
  6. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Fascinating stuff, especially the colour information. There's a little overlap in colour between Märzen and Winterbier in 1914.

    I'd love to know how these translate into modern colour scales. I suspect Munich beer may not be as dark as I assumed.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I tried to see if there was a simple multiplying factor that could be used the translate the color values to SRM. Assuming that the color of Pilsner Urquell and Paulaner Salvator of the early 1900’s are the same as contemporary versions:

    · Pilsner Urquell: 0.6 = 4.5 SRM

    · Paulaner Salvator 8.2 = 21 SRM

    The ratios of the two above examples:

    · Pilsner Urquell: 4.5/0.6 = 7.5

    · Paulaner Salvator: 21/8.2 = 2.6

    Needless to say but there is not a simple factor that can be used here.

    If you assume a linear relationship between the old German color and SRM then the a value of 2.0 (for a Marzen) would translate to about 7.5 SRM. I have no basis for assuming a linear relationship so ….

    If there was one more ‘baseline’ that could be utilized between the two end points (e.g., a Winterbier has an SRM = x) then a curve fit could be applied (or a linear relationship confirmed).

    Cheers!
     
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  8. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Salvator is a bad choice as a marker. It's got paler since I've drunk it. Pretty sure it would have been at least 40 SRM around 1900. I might have some numbers somewhere. But I feel more like another Abt than fiddling in my records.
     
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  9. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Here's a short article from the same journal where Lintner describes the principles of measuring the color depth of beer. For this a standard solution is required, which the beer is then measured against. The value of one means that the beer matches the standard solution perfectly, a higher number would mean that it is darker than the solution. He exemplifies this by using a Munich beer which is found to have the value 4.2, which means that it is 4.2 times as dark as the standard solution or a beer which has the color of the standard solution. If we were to attach an srm value to the value of 1, then perhaps this could be used as a means of approaching the color of the analyzed beers, albeit imperfectly.
     
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I recall here the correspondence between Carl and JC Jacobsen referenced earlier in the thread:

    From Carl in 1868 (after visiting both Dreher at Klein Schwechater and Sedlmayr in Munich):

    "The Munich beer is a bit darker than the Viennesse's Märzen. (The export beer, which you have seen in Copenhagen) but the difference is only minor. It has apparently been darker in the past. No burnt malt what so ever was used for it."

    From JC in the same year replying to Carl's letter:
    "Sedelmayr's malting has changed since my time I see. At that time it only lasted for five days and the sprouts only became half the lenght of the kernel. He "dried off" at a high temperature, but not as high as now and yet the beer was pretty brown."
     
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  11. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Just been looking at Carl Jacobsen's personal brewing book from 1868 - 1871. Spanning Edinburgh (William Younger), Burton (Evershed) and Copenhagen. If only it had included Spaten and Dreher. Pretty amazing as it is.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Can we surmise that "burnt" probably translates to roasted?
     
  13. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    That would be a safe bet. In both Bavaria and Austria "farbmalz" was used for coloring dark beers, this "color malt" was malt which was roasted in a drum until it took on the right dark color.

    Here is an article on farbmalz and caramel malt from 1901:

    ""Whereas in producing pale beers, all factors which would cause an post-coloration of the wort produced from pale dried malts is avoided, and in order to attain the so beloved greenish-yellow tinge of Pilsener beer, the natural color of the roasty aromatic malts used for producing dark beers isn't enough, to give the beers the dark brown color, which people for years have become accustomed to with Bavarian beers. It is not possible, to attain the darker colored worts through stronger drying of the malt, since through this process the diastatic ability is severly impacted and through this problems arise in the brewing process with associated poor efficiencies, insufficient fermentation etc. To help with this the adding of color malt is used."

    "In the past the color malt was produced thusly, by heating regular dry kilned malt in iron drums through continuous rotation until the kernels took on a dark-black-brown appearance. The flour as well as the shells were black-brown, not seldom was the product more or less charred. Nowadays a large part of the color malt is produced from moistened kilned malt or from semi-kilned malt. In this way a more even browing of the flour is achieved, the shell also does not suffer from the same degree of decay, which takes places when directly roasting the dried malt, which also through the strongly overheated shells gives the color malt an unpleasant aroma and flavor."
     
  14. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    :astonished: Sort'a glad I wasn't around in 1901.
     
  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    You never seen that in German pils? I love that slight greenish hue from the hops. Even fresh Wernesgruener from ALDI still has it these days....
     
  16. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Honestly, never -- and keep in mind that I'm a graphic artist and spent many years as a photo color corrector -- I'd have noticed greenish. Maybe I just haven't had it fresh enough. And beloved?
    Oxymoron? :wink: Seriously, beer doesn't seem to move at my local Aldi so I'm always hesitant to pick up the Wernesgruener.
     
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  17. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    ...even though the last time I tried it I thought it was a pretty decent Pils.
     
  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I really noticed it clearly when I started brewing very pale beers. After adding the hops, the wort turns a greenish hue. And (especially) when left unfiltered, those such beers can retain just the slightest greenish color in the final product.
     
  19. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Certainly seen it in the process, just not in the finished product.
     
  20. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Some interesting notes by Carl from his time at Klein Schwechater can be found here.

    "The amount of malt is as follows
    Märzen a 0.15% B
    30# per eimer = 30 kg pr hecto
    Hops. 0.368# p eimer (Vienna pound not toll pound) that is 1.229# pr centner malt
    Lager a 13.0% B 24# pr eimer (malt)
    0.280# hops pr eimer
    (abzug around 11½%B 23,6 kilograms?)
    (This last part seems to not be correct but was told to us thusly)
    The Paris-beer 32# pr eimer 0.45# hops"

    The Märzen at 15% balling thus uses 613 grams of hops per HL.
    The Lager beer at 13% balling thus uses 466 grams of hops per HL.
    The Paris export beer thus uses 750 grams of hops per HL.
     
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