Brewing tables from 1867-1871.

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Crusader, May 18, 2014.

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  1. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    That is cooler than a polar bear in a deep freeze. Especially the stuff about Paris beer. Carlsberg brewed a beer called Paris or Pariser. I'd been wondering what the hell it was. This is from 1906:

    [​IMG]

    It was a 14º Plato beer with a high percantage of maize in the grist - 35%.
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    "...high percentage of maize in the grist - 35%."

    Ron, is there any indication of the format of the maize (e.g., is it flaked maize)?

    Do you have any information on how expensive maize was as an ingredient vs. malt?

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
  3. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    That's a no and and a no.

    I can say that, as I don't think maize was grown in Denmark back then, it probably wasn't as cheap as in the US. Note that the Skattefri - tax free beer - next to it is all malt.
     
  4. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Will be at the NHC this year? I'll be in San Diego, but not at the NHC. Bastards turned down my seminar proposal.
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ron,

    Yes, I will be attending the NHC in San Diego.

    I am disappointed to hear that you won't be there. Will you be visiting local breweries and providing talks during that timeframe?

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
  6. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll be bullshitting about Lager in Coronado. With historic Lagers to sample from San Diego breweries.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Ron, I enjoy hearing what you have to say. Is there a date and time scheduled for this event?

    Cheers!

    Jack

    P.S. Your presentation at last year's NHC was excellent!! Full of information and well presented.
     
  8. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    Two out of the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday at 7 PM.
     
  9. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Have you found any mentions of 6 row barley being used in any of the grists? I have for some time suspected that the adoption of adjuncts in Danish brewing was due in part to 6 row barley varieties being extensively grown in Denmark, similar to the situation in Sweden up until the latter part of the 1800s. Whilst Sweden introduced legislation around the turn of the century for taxed beer above 6% balling which meant that only barley malt could be used for brewing such beer (since the tax was on the malt itself) this did not happen in Denmark, which instead got a tax on the finished beer with no restrictions as to the ingredients allowed.

    In one of JC Jacobsens's letters from 1868 he writes:
    "Dear Carl!
    Since the postal service and railway at this time works somewhat slowly - we have not yet recieved the christmas gifts you have spoken of-i am afraid that the samples of barley and malt, which I send out to you today, might suffer from a delay and I want to tell you with a few words that they are sent out.
    Nr 1 contains ground malt, taken from the weight container
    N 2 is fresh malt from the malt chamber, to where it arrived yesterday from the kiln
    N 3 and 4 are samples of my best barley
    N 5 is 6-row barley from Vogelius
    N 6 is malt from 6 row barley from the same

    "3 and 4. These samples weigh 115# Dutch and show the good Danish barley's usual quality such as it is delivered from the farmers."

    "No 5 shows our 6 row barley of unusually low quality. It weighs only 105# Dutch instead of the 108-110# Dutch that it weighs in good years.
    No 6 is the malt thereof which weighs 84# Dutch."

    Vogelius refers to the owner of this Danish brewery which as per the attached pdf only brewed top fermented beer at the time of JC Jacobsen's letter. Danish 6-row barley was thus used for brewing beers at that brewery. Since JC distinguishes this barley as being 6-row I guess one can conclude that the barley used by JC was Danish 2-row barley.
     
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

  11. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I was browsing your blog and came across this entry which had a pretty handy scale for beer color included in it with the same scale as in the German tables, the values and their corresponding style correspond pretty much with what one would expect, with the Munich Märzenbiere fitting within the Vienna color range pretty much, apart from a few of the lightest samples that are closer to Dortmunder.
     
  12. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd forgotten about that. I post too much.
     
  13. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I found a couple of tables of analyses of dark and pale Munich beers which I thought I would add to this thread. You can see that the dark beers are on average higher gravity, with an average of 13.52, very much in line with Bavarian lager beer in general, whilst the pale beer average of 12.35 is in line with a Bohemian lager beer, which makes sense.

    It is interesting to compare the last column for "farbe in n/100 jodlösung" with the tables I posted earlier, which were ranked by "farbe in 1/10 normal jodlösung".

    As an addition I thought I would add an analysis of Swedish pilsner beer from 1924 which also show a color analysis using the same scale. It's a 10.41% OG, 3.22% ABW (4% abv) pilsner showing a color of 0.65 cc n/10 jod (since 1923 beer sold in Sweden was limited to a maximum of 10.5% OG and 4% abv).
    [​IMG]
     
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