Mash pH in a Czech Dark Lager

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by herrburgess, May 26, 2015.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Put together my recipe for an U Fleku-type Czech dark lager I'm planning to brew tomorrow. Going to utilize 50% RO water in both the mash and the sparge water to get it very soft. Thing is, doing so for my mash water drops the pH below 5.2. I made up (well, I put the values in the water calculator) for this by adding 4 g of baking soda to the mash -- which gets the pH to exactly 5.2.

    My question is: is that a lot of baking soda? It only puts my mash + sparge water profile at 45 ppm, but I'm just a bit leery of adding that amount for some reason. Would I be OK at a mash pH slightly lower than 5.2? I know German brewers don't tend to focus too hard on mash pH. Any thoughts/insights?
     
  2. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (1,133) Sep 20, 2006 Michigan

    But what about Czech brewers?
     
  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll have to czech.

    (Booo)

    I assume it's similar.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I personally target a mash pH of 5.3 for my beers.

    Below is a list of the benefits of keeping the mash pH in the proper range courtesy of Kai Troester:

    “A commonly accepted optimal range for mash pH is 5.2 - 5.7 with 5.5 being optimal for starch conversion activity but many authors report wort and beer quality benefits if the pH is lowered into the 5.2 - 5.4 range [Kunze, 2007][Narziss, 2005]. Kunze in particular lists the following benefits for a mash pH as low as 5.2. Since it is a good and fairly comprehensive list I cited it here. Some of these benefits listed will be explained in the following sections [Kunze, 2007]:

    • The enzymatic activity in the mash is increased as all important enzymes get activated. (except for alpha amylase which starts to suffer at a pH below 5.6)
    • More zinc, an essential yeast nutrient, goes into solution
    • The extract yield (efficiency) is improved
    • The protein coagulation and precipitation is improved (improved break formation)
    • The redox potential is improved which results in a lower susceptibility to oxygen.
    • The run-off speed is improved
    • The color increase during the wort boil is reduced
    • Better trub precipitation and faster pH drop lead to faster fermentation and greater attenuation of the beer.
    • Lover viscosity improves filterability
    • The taste of the beer is more rounded, fuller and softer. The beer is crisper, more fresh and shows more character.
    • The hop bitterness is more pleasant and doesn't linger
    • The foam is more stable and denser
    • The color of the beer is lighter
    • Mash oxidation is reduced since the main culprit, the lipoxigenase enzyme, doesn't work well at low mash pH conditions
    • Haze stability is improved
    • Beer digestion is stimulated. This is a positive effect of the lactic acid
    • Susceptibility to microbial spoilage is reduced through
      • Lower beer pH: beer spoilage organism don't grow below a pH of 4.4
      • Higher attenuation
    You can read more here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_pH_affects_brewing

    Cheers!
     
  5. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    What, if anything, do you do to hit your target pH (across various styles)?
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I brew with carbon filtered tap water.

    I use the water tool MpH and that tool has been very accurate for my homebrewing.

    When I brew dark beer (Stout, Porter, etc.) I do nothing to treat the water. The dark malts acidify the mash sufficiently.

    For light colored beers I use lactic acid to acidify the mash and sparge water. I will also add some gypsum for some of the beer styles. For example, I added some gypsum for my recent batch of Kolsch.

    Water treatment is dependent on the specific water used and the grain bill of a particular batch,

    Cheers!
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Ever have a situation where the dark malts potentially over-acidify the mash?
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Nope.

    Edit: MpH has always predicted a proper mash value and my measurements have always confirmed that value.
     
  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Well, in this particular case, the use of CaraMunich II and some dehusked Carafa is taking my mash pH from 5.33 to 5.03. So without adding something to bring the pH back up, I'm in some pretty low territory.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The other option you have is to conduct a separate steep of the CaraMunich II and some dehusked Carafa. Steep at no more than 1 lb. of grain per gallon of water. Add the steeped liquid to the wort and boil away.

    The beauty of homebrewing: brew the beer the way you like.

    Edit: Conducting a separate steep will 'improve' the mashing performance but by adding the steeped liquid the wort in the boil will still have a lower pH; it only gets you 'half way' there.
     
  11. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I have a few questions/remarks regarding your post.

    (1) Why use any RO water? That is, what is in your tap water that you are trying to avoid?

    (2) I'm a bit confused by the "mash + sparge profile at 45 ppm" statement. Is this the sodium concentration? The bicarbonate concentration? If sodium, then you might be getting a bit above what is generally recommended, although I don't think you are anywhere close to getting a salty tasting beer. If bicarbonate, then this is no problem at all.

    (3) I do like Jack's thoughts of using a separate steep for the dark crystal and roasted malts. Especially for a lager where I suspect you want to avoid any acrid flavors.
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    using 50% RO water because I am going for something very soft. My tap water is good (Ca 14; Mg 2.6; Na 19.5; Chl 3; SO4 26.3), but I wanted to get those numbers closer to Pilsen's water profile.

    Yes, it's sodium concentration. I'm using EZ Water calculator, and it breaks those numbers down into mash water profile and mash + sparge water profile. Mash water is 97 ppm Na; whereas mash + sparge is 39.

    I'm using dehusked Carafa III, so the acrid flavors should be minimized somewhat anyway; still, I'll likely use my usual trick of sprinkling the grain bed with some Carafa before the sparge to get the SRMs where they need to be (around 35 or so).

    That all make sense?
     
  13. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Is the water supply in Prague as soft as Pilsen? I would ditch the RO water and use what is in your tap.
     
  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    To be really precise, I am going for Bohemian water close to Pilsen in the area of Domazlice. Used the baking soda and RO at 50%. will see if it's worth it. Here's a pre-boil pic of the beer

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Thats a pretty fancy Hydrometer! I may need to up grade! What was your pre boil reading?
     
  16. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Plastic one this time...after breaking a half-dozen glass ones.

    Pre-boil was 1.038 or so. Should end up at 1.050 (target).
     
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  17. bushycook

    bushycook Zealot (681) Jan 31, 2011 Virginia

    Do you brew outside? I've got a lot of trees in my backyard, including three gargantuan oaks, and I'm constantly fighting shit falling in my kettle. Do you have to deal with this with your size batches? I've resorted to having to put up a popup canopy up on brewday.
     
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  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Screened porch. :wink:
     
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  19. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Yep; thanks for the reply. Good luck with the rest of your process!
     
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