I'm in the process of brewing a saison and took a gravity reading yesterday. I drank the sample afterward and picked up a lot of wheat flavoring. I wasn't necessarily looking for this flavor to jump out, only 1/7 of the malt bill was wheat. Is this pretty common in your experiences brewing w/ wheat? Thanks in advance.
I dont know what I'm tasting to be honest but my beer tastes more like a hefe than a saison at this point. If I had to put a finger on it I'm getting more banana than I would like .
Am I totally wrong in thinking it was some sort of magic that happens when wheat meets hef yeast in a warm environment?
This thought of mine started from listening to Stan Hieronimus (sp?) on a BN podcast. What he actually said and what I stored away in my brain may be two complete different things.The link below lists different mash schedules to optimize either a banana or clovey beer. http://bloatariandotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/germanwheatbeers1.pdf So does wheat in itself lend better to "Increased glucose to maltose ratio enhances isoamyl acetate (banana). Ester enhanced mash profile increases the resulting glucose levels in the final wort." Or would that exist without wheat? Remember I said in a thread a while back, science and me aren't really buddies. I just learning things and if they make sense I file them in my brain until I'm taught otherwise.
You will get differing opinions but to me, yeah. For what it's worth, to me a saison made with 3711 can be like a cousin to a hefe. Not the same but not all that different. And I apologize for making a left turn by talking about hefes.
No apology necessary. With what I tasted yesterday I'd strongly agree. For commercial hefes and saisons I dont find a ton of similarities, which is why I found it surprising.
Ethanol recats with fatty acids and cetyl coenzyme acyl Co-A forming ethyl acetate, the banana flavor. "acyl Co-A" is needed for ester production and yeast growth. When yeast is reproducing acyl Co-A is not available for ester production. So yes I do believe that wheat provides more glucose than typical malt, but I may be wrong.
From that .pdf" ● Low oxygenation stresses yeast, which increases ester production. From this link: http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours#Esters Ester and other flavor component production or synthesis is a complex subject because there are so many variables taking place at the same time. You are right, ester production is related to yeast growth but not in the way you might think. The key element to yeast growth and ester production is acyl Co-A. It is necessary for both yeast growth and ester production. When it is busy with yeast growth, during the early part of the fermentation, it is not available for ester production. Ester production is directly related to biomass production. Everything that increases biomass production (intensive aeration, sufficient amount of unsaturated fatty acids, stirring) decreases ester production. The more biomass that is produced the more Co-enzyme A is used and therefore not available for ester production. Anything that inhibits or slows down yeast growth usually causes an increase in ester production: low nutrient, low O2. It has been noted that a drop in available O2 from 8 ppm down to 3 ppm can cause a four fold increase in esters. So it's true that low oxygen enhances ester formation, but I don't see it being yeast stress. Yeast stress sounds like the lil buggers are freaking out and just start to make esters, but that's not the case. edit: I just read that isoamyl alcohol will combine and produce isoamyl acetate which tastes like bananas in low concentration. So maybe stressed yeast makes isoamyl alcohol? Does the yeast actually make esters or just precursors?
I have brewed Saison beers using 3711 a number of times. My personal experiences with this yeast are that the spice flavors (phenols) dominate with some citrus flavors present. I personally have never perceived banana flavors from this yeast. Below is the description that Wyeast provides for this yeast: “A very versatile strain that produces Saison or farmhouse style biers as well as other Belgian style beers that are highly aromatic (estery), peppery, spicy and citrusy. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel.” Below is a link which has a presentation on Wheat Beer Yeast and Fermentation that may be of interest. Cheers! http://www.mbaa.com/Districts/MidSouth/presentations/Wheat_Beer_Yeast__Fermentation2.pdf
