Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

How would you define "good german character"? I'm wondering because, keeping with the example, I can't really see a unique,regional character in Krombacher that makes it "german" and makes it possible to tell it apart from many other european pilsner style lagers.

 

We've discussed this into the ground on the forum, but probably before you started frequenting more often. It's all about a malt character that U.S. breweries just can't seem to match. It's a character that's produced from the Maillard reaction of kilned malted barley and the best way to describe it is bread or toasted bread (melanoidin is the technical term). It comes out stronger in beers that use more highly kilned malts (darker), but it's there in beers that use lighter malts too. Conclusion is that barley, malting, mashing -- or any of the above is just so different in Germany than the U.S. that the outcome is also different -- and delicious.

There are a few brewers in the U.S. that can get the character in some of their beers, but it's usually the smaller brewers that pay closer attention to their batches and not worry about the next beer they "need" to brew.

 

Interesting, do you remeber in which threads the discussion was done in the past?
And, would you say this toasted bread character is in all german beers?
Is it noticable in german "craft style" beers? I have to admit I'm really fascinated by this idea of "german malt terroir". I mostly drink german beers,traditional belgian styles and french biere de garde these days, and the styles are off course too far away to notice differences in malt character...

 

Heck -- no. It's all over the place in the German forum and probably goes way back.

No. With the decline of decoction mashing the character also seems to be in decline -- even though the larger brewers want us to believe they can produce the same beer(s) without decoction and no one can tell the difference, there are many beers that used to have a good alt character, but don't anymore.

Can't tell you. Not many German "craft" beers on this side of the Atlantic and only a few the last time I visited Germany. @herrburgess may be a good source for an answer.

Me too.

 

A good treatise on melanoidin character: http://www.picobrewery.com/askarchive/melanoidin.htm

What's interesting to note is that Melanoidin malt was developed by Weyermann in order to sidestep decoction mashing. I've had beers brewed with the Melanoidin malt and others brewed with good Vienna and Munich malts, even Pils malt, and a decoction mash -- I still find more of that sweet, bready character in the beer brewed with decoction.

 

Another German brewing technique is to use "a lot of a little" (i.e. a lot of Pilsner and/or Munich) malt and to shoot for lower efficiency -- instead of using crystal malts -- to get a real depth of malt character. I have started utilizing Weyermann melanoidin malt in some of my beers, and while it does add a richness (and a beautiful red color!), it doesn't quite match the character you can achieve utilizing step-infusion and/or decotion mashing.

 

Wow, such a complex topic shouldn't be discussed without a beer in hand.

Faust does decoct their Pils (not typical even in Germany anymore). In my opinion, however, the biggest differentiating factor at Faust is the fermentation process (yeast strain and schedule). I honestly don't know what strain that yeast is, but I've never ran across another one like it.

One thing that sets German breweries apart from their international counterparts is their ability to finely manage protein fractioning. This is done by understanding your specific malt characteristics and applying an appropriate mash schedule to each new charge of malt. Of course, sensory and lab analysis is used to confirm that everything worked as planned.

Protein management can be imitated by correctly dialing in some light cara-malt, but that is a bit like spreading butter on a piece of toast with a broadsword.

 

Wow,cool topic, nice discussion, knowledgeable people, lots of food for thought. I sadly never really brewed myself...

Some thoughts and questions: Isn't decoction mash kind of common in franconia? I've heard it here and there. Because I think what is described here is what I found a lot in franconian lagers, and is a big part of why I love them so much.

And one more thing, i noticed in some regional brews from Rheinland-Pfalz a unique character, a mixture of grain, a bit flowery, a bit like freshly baked bread, hard to pin it down, but it is different from beers I had from other german regions. Beers like Kirner Landbier,Königsbacher Zischke or the Wasgau beers display it all kind of similar to me. Maybe they all get their malt from a local source? I need to ask them.

 

Can you point me to a good starting place (can also be in German) to learn about protein management/fractioning? We have just started scanning and interpreting the malt analyses on the Weyermann bags we purchase, but...dang...we've got an awful lot to learn. For example, our regular mash schedule(s), processes, and pH/H2O adjustments have recently been giving us not our usual brite beer after 5-6 weeks, but instead have been resulting in far less coagulation of proteins (albumin) during the hot break for some reason...and beer that's tough to clear. Happy to provide more details on our current processes/ingredients/mash schedules in a private message. Any help/insight would be much appreciated!

 

I would venture to say that decoction mashing is more prevalent in Franken than most other places in the world, but don't have the stats on hand to back that up. Franken is full of old school breweries that brew old school recipes (read: decoction).

I would also venture to say that your suspicion about a connection between a specific malt flavor tied to a specific region and that region's maltings is likely correct. Try brewing a Helles three times in a row with three different malts: Heidelberger, an average German Pils malt, and a Pale Ale malt. I think you'll agree that the malt character will differ quite a bit.

 

Honestly, I don't know of a well written source of info on that topic (in German or English). I haven't had a chance to read Mallett's "Malt" book, and have high hopes that he was able to break it down well. Here's my best shot in 15 min or less:

Work backwards: There are established norms for protein fractions in 12 Plato Helles Wort:

• Total Protein: 900-1100 mg/L
• High Molecular Weight Protein: 200-240 mg/L
• Middle Molecular Weight Protein: 160-200 mg/L
• Low Molecular Weight Protein: 660-720 mg/L
• FAN (included in lowest range of Low Weight Protein): 200-250 mg/L

You are going to have to send your beer off to a lab to get these numbers, as the required labwork is pretty intense. If your finished beer is in these ranges and in the correct ratios (ie: FAN should be between 20 and 22% of total Protein), then you've done well.

But how do you get there? Well, there are also established norms for these Protein types in malt.

• Total Protein: 9.5-11.5% Malt dry substance
• Soluble Protein: 650-750 mg/100g Malt dry substance
• Kolbach Number: 38-42%
• FAN: 135-155 mg/100g Malt dry substance (21-24% from Soluble Protein)

Getting from these numbers (where your malt should be) to the wort protein numbers (the real goal) requires a bit of experience/skill/knowledge/love/patience. This is where it's great to be able to conduct a stepped mash (which can target two separate protein degrading enzymes, which are active at different temps and produce different types of protein fractions). You will find it much harder to hit these numbers consistently by simply adding some cara-pils malt. To make this even more difficult, each delivery of malt can have significantly different protein fractions.... so yeah.

Protein haze is usually caused by having too much High Molecular Weight Protein (more than 240 mg/L) in your wort. Here are some tips (don't try all at once):

• First: send off a sample to get analyzed. You can't be sure that this is the issue if you don't know the numbers.
• Carboxypeptidase rest at 55 C for 20 min (will chew the ends off some of those long Proteins)
• more intense boil (shouldn't need to be boiling off more than 10% though)
• drop your pH (protein solubility decreases as pH does)
• lager long and cold
• Or, you could do what most "craft" brewers do: dump fining agents into your brite tank. (which I don't know much about, but see as fully unnecessary when the beer is made well in the first place)

I hope that helps.

 

Excellent info to start me out with. Vielen Dank! Would a local brewery with a lab be able to do that type of analysis for me initially? Very interesting about the carboxypeptidase rest at 55 C; I think I'll try this one first as I had an initial hunch that it might help.

 

I just realized that my last comment on that last post came off a bit dickish.

Background: I just wrapped up a two week trip to the US, where I was able to check out a few of the latest developments. I saw multiple examples of new Chicago breweries turning out substandard beer to crowds of cheering fans. Rushed fermentation, poor protein management, forced carbonation that had no time to bind, yeast slurries in a glass.... all covered up by a healthy dose of American aroma hops. The beers from the three tap rooms that I visited were nearly identical, and unimpressive. I was sad.

To be fair, during my trip I also had several of SN's new IPAs, a Deschutes IPA, and the Heller Bock from Ploughshare (Lincoln, NE) all of which I thought were awesome. The good big guys (SN is a prime example) are combining the best aspects of precision brewing with American innovation and are delivering some really exciting beers.

 

I highly doubt that they will have the equipment to do a Kjeldahl Nitrogen Analysis, but it's worth asking. I checked via google a while back and could only find one place in the US that offers it; White Labs.

 

Disheartening, but not surprising in these days of burgeoning breweries. I said it in another thread, running before they can walk.

Can you tell us which breweries seemed lacking? If not here, can you PM me? Being in the middle of this new boom (I'm in the Chicago area) I'm very wary of the next new thing.

 

Since living here I have come to the conclusion the a lot (most?) US brewers only care about big & bold (maybe this is the WOW!®℠™ factor) far more than turing out a well crafted beer.

 

I have to post it here as a sidenote of the "german malt character" discussion, because it amused me.
In a german discussion group, a german who just visited the USA and got hooked on Langunitas IPA asked if anyone knew a german IPA that comes close in style. He complained that all german IPAs he had so far were way too malty and not as clean and clear as Langunitas.
I suggested this might have to do with what i dubbed "german malt terroir"....

 

Sometimes less-than-flavorful 2-row has it's upside.