Slow cool. Good idea or folly?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by redgorillabreath, Jun 19, 2015.

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  1. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    So on last weekend's batch, sub-optimal planning combined with a restaurant reservation resulted in letting the kettle sit and cool for a few hours just sitting there (covered). We managed to get from boiling to 120F before that. When we got back, it was still at 85F. We cooled it the rest of the way to 70-ish and got it into the fermenter, etc.

    In the process of sitting, the hops trub had very nicely settled out, so we siphoned out super clear brew into the fermenter.

    Still a beginner...this was batch #8. Do any brew-gurus see a problem with doing this as a normal practice? It only say on the trub for several extra hours, with the upside that the trub REALLY settled out, resulting in a very clean batch into the fermenter.

    Cheers!!!
     
  2. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    CW holds the longer the wort rests below 120°F ... the greater the opportunity for bacteria to get the upper hand during fermentation.

    Aussies disagree.
     
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  3. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Trub will settle out anyway even if it makes it into the fermenter...no big deal
     
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  4. aobrehm

    aobrehm Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2015 Oregon

    Lots of bacteria likes to propagate in that 80F-120F range, so your biggest risk is infection. The fact that you had it covered bodes well for you, but it's hard to know immediately if any infection was able to settle in. Did the batch start fermenting quickly? The quicker your yeast gets active, the harder it is for bacteria to establish themselves.
     
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  5. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    The yeast activity picked up very quickly. About ten hours after it went into the fermenter, there was vigorous bubbling, and 2" of krausen on top. This weekend is transfer for secondary fermentation. I'll taste it along the way.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd estimate your chances of ending up with a noticeably contaminated batch at about 1-2%.
     
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  7. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    From Beersimith :

    3. Cool your Wort Quickly

    Use an immersion or counter-flow chiller to cool your beer as quickly as possible. If you take your wort from boiling to fermentation temperature quickly, the tannins and proteins will form clumps, fall out, and form a thick layer of trub at the bottom of your boiler. The quicker you can cool the wort, the more dramatic the effect. The less tannins and suspended proteins, the clearer your beer will be. Ideally you would like to cool a boiling 5 gallon batch to room temperature in 15 minutes or less.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you're referring to the idea that fast cooling improves cold break, that's a fairly commonly held belief. I'm not sure how true it is, but I wouldn't call it a ridiculous urban legend without some evidence or a theoretical explanation as to why it couldn't be true.
     
  9. Mike_Aguirre

    Mike_Aguirre Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2015 Mexico

    Well I agree with everyone, it's risky, not worth it really you could mess up a lot of beer.
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    But are you comparing your slow-cooled-wort beers to a split from the same batch that was cooled quickly? It sounds like you're not. Which put's this into the fallacious trap of "I do 'X' and I make great beers, therefore 'X' is a best practice." There's nothing wrong with your belief if you're happy with your results, but to call a commonly accepted tenet a ridiculous urban legend based on that is faulty logic.
     
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  11. Cadmando18

    Cadmando18 Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2015 Oregon

    I'd like to add something other than the infection risk that everyone here has noted. I would say that cooling the wort quickly is the best way to make a consistent tasting beer from one batch to the other. I personally used to have to cool my wort using ice in the sink and while it worked, and the beer always tasted good, it never tasted the same as my last batch. After years of brewing that way, I got myself a chiller plate (for free, SCORE!) and I was able to make 3 batches of a pale ale that tasted exactly the same.

    So other than increasing your risk of infection (slightly) and also taking longer to complete your brewing process, it could also cool at different rates based on outside temperature, and change the flavor, clarity and mouth feel of your beer. Still, you will most likely come out with beer you very much enjoy drinking and Cheers to that!
     
  12. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Isn't there a school of thought that says trub is actually a good thing in the fermenter?

    I figure it's got a lot of hops in there...so it's got to be good : ) ...probably style dependent though

    I wonder what style of beer the OP was brewing?
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What do yeast do with protein? Amino acids are an important nutrient. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of.

    ETA: I meant to also say... beer wort normally has sufficient amino acids, but they can be supplemented by adding yeast nutrient. A downside to lots of trub in the fermenter is fatty acids, which can literally be turned into soap.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Peptides are part of FAN, but peptides are not proteins. And proteins are not part of FAN. I see this quote in your Wyeast link...
    "During the lag phase, yeast also take in amino acids, peptides, other proteins, and various nutrients." This is the first time I have heard of yeast taking in proteins. I'm still doubtful about that, given the way the sentence reads... "other proteins,".... what were the first proteins? If the writer thinks that amino acids and peptides are proteins, I'm inclined to discount his/her statement. Is there a scholarly source that asserts yeast use proteins? If so, I'd be happy to learn it.
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm looking forward to hearing what you find. Keep in mind that all proteins are polypeptides, but not all polypeptides are proteins.
     
  16. geezerpk

    geezerpk Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2010 South Carolina

    Me too. We have plenty of water where I live, but I still hate wasting it on quicker chills. I usually just wrap the coverered fermenter in a wet towel, aim a small fan at it and let it cool overnight. Never had a problem.
     
  17. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    The amount of water on earth has remained pretty much constant for more than a million years. Perhaps you meant you hate wasting money on water? My water bill is never more than $15 per month and I squander water. Thank you Lake Michigan!
     
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  18. geezerpk

    geezerpk Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2010 South Carolina

    Wrong!
     
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  19. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I have no opinion on the water debate, but that reply along with your Avatar was priceless.
     
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  20. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    ...

    Kind of ironic...but the Great Lakes are only ~ 10,000 yrs old. Just say'in...it's kind of WHERE you happen to be living...we have people holding prayer vigils here for more rain ... cheers

    For the record: My well water sucks and I brew with RO + minerals/salts...I also waste a shit load of that well water for cooling...but yes, it's all recycled and will find it's way to Lake Michigan eventually : )
     
    #20 GreenKrusty101, Jun 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
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