Go to Brett Beer?

Great beer, and I have always loved that brett-like character, but I read a while back that it isn't actually Brettanomyces that does the trick, it's Debaromyces hansenii:

"The beer is conditioned for at least 12 months, in closed stainless-steel vessels. During this period, a wild yeast fermentation develops. The yeast is of a strain called Debaromyces hansenii, catalogued in 1924. It is similar to Brettanomyces. Brewer Miles Jenner believes the strain is airborne. The other possibility is that it is an element of the house yeast but, in the manner of Brettanomyces, emerges only in the course of a long maturation."

http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001504.html

For all practical purposes it's pretty much the same, though.

 

I completely agree. I typically refer to the sour AWA's as sours, as if that's a style in itself.

 

rayon vert and orval every day

saison-brett for special occaisions

love sofie, like matilda, but i don't get much brett funk from either

 

Doesn't Brett produce lactic and acidic acid (as well as ethyl acetate and ethyl lactate)? I guess these flavors could be considered tart/acidic and not "sour". I do completely agree with you that examples of the AWA style don't have to be sour in the way that most people think it does, especially fresh bottles.

My go to Brett beer has always been Orval, but I just got bottles of Saison-Brett and BRUX that I'm excited to try. I was also impressed with a couple of the Mikkeler all Brett beers when I had them.

 

Here are some good descriptions from the below page. As mentioned B. Lambicus produces some sour flavors which we would probably consider more tartness.
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/brewing-sour-and-wild-ales

Brettanomyces: Wild mutant yeasts that don’t quite play as well as the traditional Saccharomyces. They produce most of the "funk" character with relatively little acid production. Experiments indicate that a straight Brett-only ferment produces a cleaner, less “Bretty” beer than beers fermented with both Brett and Saccharomyces.
Grow it just like you would any other yeast.
Main Varieties:

• B. Claussenii ( related B. Anomolus) – English Stock Beer Origin - Softer brett – aroma contributor of pineapple, mangos. Preferred strain for straight Brett ferments due to speed - White Labs Only
• B. Bruxellenis - Brussels - This produces a medium amount of the earthy funk associated with Brett. Primary character - sandalwood spiciness mixed with earthiness. Think Orval.
• B. Lambicus - Every lambic - Huge brett "horsey" character with some fruitiness, smoky and sour flavors.

Lactobacillus debruckii: Produces lactic acid for a crisp dry acidity. Primary character of Berliner Weiss. Over time may produce a lightly sick beer that is ropey. With age, the ropes will dissolve. Other strains of lactobacillus produce more characters than straight lactic acid.
Not a fan of oxygenated or hopped wort - use freshly boiled wort minimize oxygen in your starter. Ferment very warm - e.g. 98F

Pediococcus: Produces tons of lactic from glucose. No CO2 production. - This stuff gives brewers nightmares. It is incredibly difficult to get established and then damn near impossible to kill off. Early stages of ferment contain a massive charge of diacetyl. This is eventually consumed and converted into less noticeable characters.
Hates Oxygen. Produces a protective ropy layer that is broken down by Brettanomyces. Always use in conjunction

Acetobacter - "Vinegar Mother" - converts ethanol to acetic acid. Really only use when you're dead set on making vinegar.

Enterobacter - yes, gut bacteria - produce some of the more bilious characters in a lambic. very small quantities.

 

Brett does not equal sour... It's one of the many wild yeast that spontaniously ferment Lambic but it does not add and sour flavor to beer. It adds earthyness, funkiness barnyard flavors, stinky cheese sweat socks and horseblanket.

Orval of course!

IMHO DeProef brewery in Belgium are the kings of brett only wild ales.
The Flemish Primative Series is as good as it gets. They do a few others too (Reinhart ect).

The SN/RR Brux and Mikkeller's single yeast Brett are pretty damn good too.

I was blown away recently by Jack's Abby's Bier De Gaurde w/Brett but that is a tough get if you are not local. 10 cases only of that bad boy.

There are a lot of BS brett beers out there two. It seemed like the trend was to "spike" beers with brett as a finish to a regular beer. Buyer beware!

 

“There are a lot of BS brett beers out there two. It seemed like the trend was to "spike" beers with brett as a finish to a regular beer.”

Orval is not fermented with Brett; the Brett is added at bottling time (a “spike”?). Would you consider what Orval does to be a “BS brett beer”?

Cheers!

 

No Orval is not BS. They have been brewing that beer for hundreds of years probably before science even knew what brett was or had isolated the yeast strain. Actually the complete oposite of what I am talking about.

What I am talking about is the modern brewery that takes a regular beer from there lineup and adds brett so they can market and sell it at as a premium beer. Brett is a fickle mistress and half these guys have no idea how to use it.

Oh... I also am a huge fan of Gabe's use of Brett in a lot of the stuff he did with Midnight Sun and now Ancorage brewing.

 

I may have misspoke. I looked last night and I seem to have a full 4 pack of Rayon Vert so I'm not sure which brett beer from San Diego I was underwhelmed by. I'll try a real Rayon Vert tonight. An employee who moved from San Diego to New Mexico brought me a carload of local beers including the Rayon Vert and apparently at least one other brett beer.

 

I have good one to do if you have some patience with cellaring. Try a 5 + year old Orval next to a reasonably fresh one. It is a great way to see what brett does to a beer in the bottle. Two totally different beers.

 

Thanks for your reply. It was unclear to me what you meant by “spike”.

Cheers!

 

Rayon Vert makes my heart happy

 

I have some 3 year old Orval in our wine cave in France, we'll get back to it next year.
The brett I drank was a Mo Betta Bretta.

 

Either a rayon vert or I delve into the local hick stores around me that sell really old Orval.

 

Actually they haven't been brewing that beer for hundreds of years.

You'll want to check the history of that beer and the Abbey where it is brewed. The recipe was developed in the 1930s as the Abbey was being reestablished/rebuilt after laying in ruins for over a hundred years. At least partial credit for the beer is given to the German Brewmaster they had hired to re-establish brewing at the Abbey. They also cite the effects of English brewing procedures on the beer.

http://www.orval.be/en/50/The-Brewery-in-the-history-of-Orval

Cheers!

 

All brett beers are not always sour...if they are let to age in the barrel long enough they can get some sourness...Like Surly Five.
Most of the other American Wild ales have pedio and lacto which brings more sourness.
SOur mashing is not done that often most use pedio and lacto
Ithica Brute is the only one I know of that does sour mashing

 

In response to the original post, I have brand new go to brett beer, and it's Victory Helios, which was recommended to me on a thread about beers you love but hurt your wallet...

We haven't always had a lot of Victory beers here in Denver although for the last 4-5 years you could count on Hop Devil, Prima Pils, Golden Monkey, and maybe Hop Wallop prettry much everywhere, Storm King in the fall...but I didn't search out the Helios until that post.

Turns out they have tons of it at Total Beverage in Westminister, at $3.98 apiece, solving the sore wallet part of enjoying brett beers. So there's that sorted.

As to sourness from brett, I don't think you can say categorically that brett imparts no sourness, that that comes from lacto, pedio, etc. I have homebrewed beers with Brett B and C which, over time, definitely developed a tartness (nothing like La Folie, just a little tart edge on top of the earthiness). I guess I could have infected them thru poor sanitation but that has not been a problem in my traditional brewing so I kind of doubt it.

 

THat is what I said... let brett work long enough and it can develop some sourness/funk

 

Yeah, I was agreeing with you & disagreeing with what I read as some fairly categorical statements upthread, from others, to the contrary.

 

Definitely Orval.

Brett can lightly sour a beer with the proper amounts of oxygen available, but most brett beers aren't noticeably sour to me at least.

I think Brux should definitely be put in the Belgian strong pale ale category, as it's just a stronger take on Orval, which is most certainly not an American wild ale. But then again I also think that it's a mistake to put any beers soured with bacteria in the same category with beers that aren't. That's a huge fundamental difference in style. Brett has and can be used in many styles of beer.